Second stage of a $3.50 9-man. Twelve hands in, second one we've played. MP2 seems to multitabling but quite loose, 28/15, 2.0 AF. MP3 the same but tighter, 18/12, 2.5AF.

Pre-flop we're ok with just calling out the big blind with AQs at this stage? Considered a squeeze but preferred to play it safe.

On the flop MP2 overbets the pot, something I've not seen before. Unsure how to interpret this. Don't think a set bets so much. Maybe an ace bets this much if they get very twitch about flush draws but otherwise it's quite a dry board. Something like KQs? The call is a little unnerving and I am guessing an ace as a minimum as he doesn't close the action. But would expect the ace to be AT-AQ rather than AK if he just called pre.

Was unsure what to do here and tanked. If I just call the pot is the size of the effective stack and I expect a shove on the turn, so really need to decide here whether it all goes in or not. In the end I settled on the overbet being a draw and the call being a worse ace and shipped it. What do you think?

Hi Plastic,

There can be an argument for folding this OOP preflop (Assuming again this is a normal speed) or somehow pot controlling (and if people don't let you do this, often can find a fold). Especially in the lower field formats, where doubling at the risk of going out a reasonable amount isn't worth it (the starting stack is often very powerful being only 15k chips in total in the tournament)

As played when the original raiser bets pot i would be worried, there is nothing to say here he doesn't just have the hand (and you should expect him to) as he has raised 90 preflop (not from position) and then led pot into two people postflop on a clear Axx board (where it does represent his range).

--you said he is multitabling, so i assume less likely to be making big moves (betting pot is not a standard line, so i consider this a 'move' even if it means he has a big hand like AK here.)
--He may have KQs as you state, but that is literally only hand you are ahead of (unless he can make some large moves) and even then busting at bb30 if it can be avoided is optimal, so seeing a range which consists of strong Ax and flush draws sucks
--You need this player to have atleast AT here to be getting any value vs Ax hands in his range

AK |AQ| AJ ((AT)) --so see here if he has AK and AJ and bets pot to call off here, you break even because you lose to 1 and beat 1 (AQ is in the middle) -- so you need AT to be in there also to make value vs that part of the range - then KQs adds to you equity, and then any times he folds, but these situations are going to be very thin either way and often better to put thought in else where and minimizing the risk here.

Some of these assumptions could be off, but this is just playing around showing how risky it could be.

Main part is, playing big ballooned pots early on vs strong ranges is ill advised in probably all tournament formats especially lower field and then even more so in normal speeds. I'd say if you did flat here, just fold and be happy with getting away (and then the times where he bets smaller, or checks, or you get AQ in position, or better situation later you can take a different line)

All just thoughts really, but hope that helps

GL

NCAA

PS: I didn't see that MP2 flatted post so my whole post above was assuming that it was just original guy bet MP3 folded and now you have your AQ with a decision. (however probably still stands, just the fact you have a slightly better pot to win if you can, id still assume you are up against one very strong hand just with a bit of extra dead money now)

I like your preflop play. There is no need to squeeze here. We don't want to push out hands that we beat and realistically, our opponent's ranges aren't all that wide. Additionally, we don't want to create a huge pot OOP. Your hand will be well disguised, as you're in the big blind and players tend to play a wide range from the big blind. By flatting you will be more balanced, but I don't think that's a concern at these stakes.

I don't like the all in move here. Think for a second how strong your hand looks when someone pots, someone cold calls and you move in over the top. I wouldn't think anyone would do that with worse than 2p or a set (or the player being a donk :P ). So you can't expect the other players to stack off with worse hands than AQ here.

On the flop, you should be folding. I would be tempted to call in the heat of the moment, but this is just going to lead you down a cliff. You'll be in a big pot out of position, against two relatively strong ranges, when you really don't need to risk anything. It's hard to put your opponent's on a range here. MP3 could definitely have some worse aces here. Not quite sure what to think of MP2. Possibly he's overbetting to get value from weak aces with AK, AQ, or sets.

Why do you think an overbet would be a draw? When we think about it, when he opens from this early position, he doesn't have many low cards that connect with the board. Essentially this only leaves the FD, which isn't necessarily impossible, but unlikely as it's the only draw combo.

Even if one of the players has a draw, can we really expect the other villain to fold as well? If I was in MP3 and facing a normal sized bet with a monster, I would normally flat to allow others to join.

I've been working to have a reason for every bet I make, and it's either for value (getting worse hands to pay me off) or as a bluff (getting better hands to fold). Your hand is good enough here to raise to get value, especially seeing as how you think you've got a better hand than both of these opp's. Raise and get the draws and weak A's to commit instead of scaring them off with a big c/overshove.

Also, an overshove like this is often made by somebody who doesn't want to be faced with a tough decision on the next street (ex. TP good kicker on a wet board not wanting to see the flush/straight complete), which is a weakness of mine I've been fighting for a while. You should fight this mindset as well if this is a weakness of yours.

This is absolutely terrible advice, there is literally no argument that can be made for folding AQs to a raise and a call from ANY position, much less in the BB where you get a great price and even more so in a game with antes. Absolutely brutally bad to ever consider folding here.

This is also ridiculous, there is a huge amount of hands that you're ahead of, tons of Ax, tons of flush draws, underpairs, and straight air. Talking like AQ is ever a dog in this position vs an unknown is crazy. The guy that flatted behind never has you beat, except for sets. I shove here and celebrate when one guy snaps with a8 and the other guy snaps with diamonds. But the big thing here is you can never fold pre ever. I prefer a squeeze, since people hate folding to 3 bets early in tournaments like this so you will have at least one guy call with a worse hand, and you literally never have to worry about getting 4 bet bluffed.

We want to push out one hand and take the flop HU vs a worse hand so yeah, thats a pretty big argument for squeezing. I dont mind making a bigger pot at all when it's with hands I dominate.

People at these stakes are not paying attention to how strong what you did "looks". They are thinking about their hand and their hand only. Tons of bad players are stacking off with their weak ax when you shove here and even hands like KK,QQ, and draws that they aren't getting the right price for.

WAT?? Saying you would ever fold AQs on an Axx board vs one bet is crazy bad.

Folding here ever will lead your graph of winnings down a cliff.

You have literally no read that their ranges are strong. It's a $3 SNG. If you dont want to risk anything in poker just wait for AA all the time.

Or he has Ax, (weak or otherwise), FD, or KK that he's too stubborn to fold and is overbetting because he's clicking buttons and doesn't know any better.

Why do I care about them not folding when they call with so many worse hands?