i'd bet ~ $20. you'll see JT, 77 etc. often enough, i think. most likely fold to a raise.

My reply is I screwed up pokerstoving. I probably put the board as 833. I'm glad I didn't go on to say more stupid stuff.

Given your read, your equity sucks. It's a weird line for a draw for him anyway and given your read draws and weaker made hands aren't likely.

Given your read though, I'm thinking he's not betting the turn with most 8s, so I'm probably calling the flop and folding to a serious turn bet.

Villain is 41/21/2.4

Two hands before i c/r'd him on a monotone flop and he folded. So he might be on a revenge was my quess but who knows.



Sockerfri ($100)
bu1ke ($104.55)
heikozoeller ($93.05)
Ketus ($38.50)
Firetribe ($107.25)
draggen25 ($91.60)

Sockerfri posts (SB) $0.50
bu1ke posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe 9d 9s
call, fold,
Firetribe raises to $4.50
fold, fold, fold, call,

FLOP ($10.50) 3c 4h 4d
check,
Firetribe bets $8
heikozoeller raises to $16
Firetribe calls $8

TURN ($42.50) 3c 4h 4d 6s
heikozoeller bets $21
Firetribe calls $21

RIVER ($84.50) 3c 4h 4d 6s Tc
heikozoeller bets $21
Firetribe calls $21

the trouble with 344 flops against a 41/21 is that it hits these sorts of villains a lot.

but I think you played the hand just fine.

What's your general impression on these types of "reads" which go "Might be on a revenge" etc?

My English is not good enough to explain this thoroughly but... you know... "minibet is weakness" is a real read. In this hand I'm just quessing how Villain might feel even though I dont know the person. For all I know he might be watching Friends DVDs and not paying atenttion. Should I just add those factors to the air % of his range?

My experience is that they are playing back at you less than you think they are, but given the odds he gave you I'm fine calling down. He can have complete air a decent amount, but he can also have 65 77 88 3x. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see a weak pair or like KQ here.

Make a note on what he had and how he played it though for sure.

my brain works like this:
-villain is a donk (stats)
-villain makes donkish bets
-you have a strong hand
-you should call his bets
-raising makes him fold his random crap

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $77.65
BTN: $249.00
SB: $54.40
Hero (BB): $125.80

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 9 Q
1 fold, BTN raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $16, BTN raises to $32.50, Hero calls $16.50

Flop: ($65.50) 4 9 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($65.50) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $34.50, Hero calls $34.50

River: ($134.50) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $182 all in, Hero folds


villain is ExB1983. he is 14/13/6 over a decent chunk of hands. he has a higher att steal than most nits, so i think that he is capable of raising light in LP. I have been raising (my first 3bet) a lot of hands lately and winning lots of small pots b/c CO and BTN(vill) are both nits.

when he min4bets me i feel like i have odds as he's rarely folding post flop. the nine on the flop is good, it gives me 5 more outs. im still check folding any single pair to a bet. his bet on the turn im getting 3-1 immediate + whats left in my stack or so implied lets me choke out a call ?

I prefer to 3bet for value out of the blinds because nobody ever folds to 3bets in position. After you 3bet everything looks standard because of the odds.

Does this look ok? I plan on folding to a shove from UTG after I make it 42 but am obv getting it in vs sb

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $71.85
SB: $81.65
Hero (BB): $121.90
UTG: $141.20
MP: $12.35
CO: $57.70

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A K
UTG raises to $4, MP raises to $12.35 all in, 2 folds, SB raises to $20.70, Hero raises to $42, 1 fold, SB calls $21.30

Flop: ($100.35) 8 J 4 (3 players - 1 is all in)
SB checks, Hero bets $44, SB folds

Turn: ($100.35) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($100.35) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Karp with AKhh I call because you usually stack him when you hit anyways so even though shoving is +EV it's not optimal. I also think those ranges people are giving are pretty terrible guys won't have stuff like 66 here and he rarely has JJ+.

MikeMcq,
Bet there is too much value and you should be bluffing that card a lot, I'm not that sure what you should be doing to a shove, but I don't think he shoves very often.


Karp,
With 99 that looks standard, I might fold turn vs. some guys, but you need to call river.

Kleath,
You can't really fold to a shove from UTG. I would call the three bet or fold if I thought he was a nit.

Bengie,
I think your three bet size is a little big. I would probably make it 14. As played folding to the 4bet is fine and postflop is standard assuming you were planning on c/f the flop.

Perhaps Im misinterpreting ranges then, 4bet being put on a random utg I would think tightens his shoving range alot, like KK+. And in the middle of typing I realize how ridiculous it is to expect him to fold QQ there.

Mike, as we discussed today I did a lot of thinking about this hand and talked to Cha about it also and he shared some of your thoughts about the hand with me. As I said earlier, I wrote a lengthy response yesterday then deleted it because I wasn't confident enough to post it. But as you requested, here were my thoughts about the hand.

Villains stats, although a small sample, would lead me to believe he's a fairly solid player. His flop call really confuses me here, especially if he thinks you're solid.

Almost any good player is going to reraise on this flop with 2 pair, trips, or an overpair slowplayed preflop. Not only to protect his hand, but to extract value from you before the board gets even scarier. He's also not likely to be floating on a flop like this.

This leaves the nut straight, and then some draws and combo draws like JT, QT, and 77. He could also have a pair with a decent kicker like AT or KT.

I guess flat calling the nuts here is ok, but I would tend to raise it myself in the hopes you had a big overpair. Lots of people love to slowplay so I wouldn't rule it out. I would also tend to raise JT because I would be happy to get it in with an OESD and pair.

QT I would be less likely to raise so that's a possibility. I'm not sure what I would do with AT, KT, or 77, but I could see calling sometimes.

Now when a villain flat calls me on a flop in a spot where I'm likely c-betting a large % of the time, and then the turn helps me, I usually like to check and hope to induce a bluff. But this spot I think I prefer leading something like $22 on the turn.

There are several hands you're ahead of that will call. Most of these hands have outs and might check behind if you check. Sometimes if you check to them they will bluff you and it's going to put you in a tough spot.

The problem with leading is if you get raised. It's pretty tough to laydown top pair and an OESD with decent odds. I think I would muck to a reraise though.

Now if you lead and get called the river is still going to be difficult to play. I think if it blanks or we hit another Ace I would be willing to check/call nearly any bet. It's just too difficult giving someone credit for exactly QJ here. I guess trips and 2 pair are possible but they seem fairly unlikely except for AT. If you make a straight obviously we're getting it in. If the board pairs the 8,9, or T it would be an interesting decision. Also if you make 2 pair with a J.

I would love to see some other responses. I think it's an interesting spot and am surprised it hasn't seen more discussion. Your hand just seems too strong to give up on but not strong enough to commit with. Maybe in the big picture considering villains range after the flop call it's EV neutral no matter what your plan is for the hand.

villain is 50/0/0 over 20 hands

how's my line? I was thinking that I probably have around 11-17 outs on the turn (unless I am drawing dead against a FH or 4 of a K, which I never considered at the time). OK to call AI?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($10.40)
Button ($25.40)
SB ($14.20)
Hero ($39)
UTG ($29.15)
MP1 ($23.05)
MP2 ($35.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q.
5 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $1, SB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) 4, 2, 5 (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2.

Turn: ($8) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $10.2 (All-In), Hero calls $10.20.

River: ($0) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $28.40

Actually, I thought about this a little more and think that advice is dumb.

If we lead the turn and get called and the river blanks I think we have to shove. If we check a lot of the hands we beat check behind and the hands that beat us bet. If we shove some hands we beat might call.

Thoughts would be appreciated. Villian is running 30/16 over a small sample. No other real reads. What hands would you stack off with here?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $68.00
Fayvren (UTG): $79.55
McTriso (MP): $48.00
WLee20 (CO): $65.15
smaug_kc (BTN): $53.20
Locus (SB): $82.35

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with x x
3 folds, smaug_kc raises to $1.50, Locus calls $1.25, Hero raises to $7, smaug_kc calls $5.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($15.50) 6 8 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $10, smaug_kc raises to $26.50

I hate shoving at any point in this hand if we don't make a near nut hand. I don't see what hands would call a shove that don't beat us if we've blanked the river and have TPJK. I could possibly see shoving to get a better hand to fold, but that's really not happening much with this kind of board. You will fold all the hands you are beating however. I think your check/call river is better.

This hand really bothered me, because it seemed so strong, yet felt like it had some really bad implied odds based on the seemingly solid villain and the action so far, and me OOP.

I think bet/fold is best.

I checked and he bet pot...

Dr. Jeck,

I'd raise to at least $4 on the flop. Which would make the turn easier. As played I think I'd still gamble and call. He shows up with non-made hands here a bit of the time as well which boosts your equity.

Jmills,

I wouldn't stack off here with out 2pair or better. Based on your two unsuited cards, I don't think I'd be there at that point. I wouldn't have 3 bet w/o a bigger sample with T9o, 87o, 76o or 45o. Not that it's out of the question, but just not against a relative unknown.

stack off w/ 66-88, QQ+. If he had QQ-AA he likely would have reraised pf from the btn instead of calling, so his flop reraise range is probably 66+, maybe (A5s, A9s, AT+)

99-JJ should probably be folded, maybe change line to c/c. He raises wide pf, but he called your pfr and raised your early postion flop bet, so I think he likely has an overpair or possibly a set.

umm, I just fold pf. You don't have a great hand, and you're oop post flop. Villain bet and reraised you pf, let this hand go and never do it again.

As played, bet/fold line post flop... I guess

I don't like AK vs bet, raise1, raise2 pf. Take advantage of your pf position and fold pf. You're oop post flop and flop will miss you like 67% of the time...

bet that turn ace. You have tpgk and an OESD, like 14 outs to improve even further. Keep betting and building the pot.

Its not just the fact that its rereraised to me though look at the stacks, EP raise, shorty shoves, sb minraises to isolate, Im ahead of sb's range here by a decent amount I think.

I dont think you have the equity to call here but its close enough that its not that big of a mistake imo.