I was thinking check/shove would be good for a couple of reasons.
1. He may check back the turn and we get a free shot
2. It's really strong and he may think he's smoked and fold getting another bet from him
3. We probably still have a boatload of outs when called.

I also like betting to set our price, but I would have personally c/raised. I usually wait to c-r turns vs opponents who I know will bet when checked to, but here it's ok if they check behind.

I always feel dumb when I do this and blank out on the river(I guess if he flat called my 2/3 pot and I blanked out I'd feel really dumb). Are you bluff shoving any rivers? Also, when we do hit it doesn't seem like we'll get paid very often which I guess makes a decent case for shoving any K or J river.



This was the main reason I bet. I had no signficant history with the guy and I know he doesn't know me either. I'm pretty sure most pp's check behind the turn for some pot control. It's also a really good board for a 88-JJ to check behind and value bet most rivers since ace high will be able to talk themselves into a call.

How big of a river bet do you call here? Am I way out of line on the flop?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

CO: $148.25
BTN: $96.50
SB: $94.30
Hero (BB): $101.50
UTG: $123.10
MP: $106.05

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with T A
1 fold, MP raises to $3, 3 folds, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) T Q 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4, Hero raises to $10, MP calls $6

Turn: ($26.50) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

River: ($26.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks

Villain is unknown?

I'd just call the flop. It's drawy yes but your equity doesnt look good vs villains possible range. And if you raise make it bigger.

As played I'd call a PSB on the river since none of the draws got there and you have some showdown value.

fold pf, what are you doing?

DD,

I'd have a hard time not betting a K river. I usually wouldn't bet a J river because people seem to never believe you have a J. You always have AK!

Reads or stats would help.

Anyway, I fold it preflop. Maybe I'm a nit.

On the flop, your options are c/f, c/c, c/r, or b/f.

c/f is pretty weak, but folding second pair can't be that bad. Not my first choice though.

c/c is ok, especially if villain plays really straight forward. He'll check back a lot of flops, and you can actually value bet the river or snap off a bluff from a busted draw/air.

c/r is meh. It's a drawy flop and you get looked up a lot. You are then playing a bloated pot oop. This is like my least favourite line.

b/f is something I do basically when I don't want to c/c, c/r or c/f. Your hand is good a lot, it makes the hand easier to play than c/r and it's not as weak as c/f. However, this flop is too drawy imo, and you'll just have a lot of difficult turn decisions here.

So, depending on reads, my standard would be to c/c.

As played, I'd be more inclined to call a bigger bet than a smaller bet and it would depend on timing, both when he called the c/r and when he bets the river. If he snap called the flop and snap bets the river, I'd probably call. He's weak on the flop, which means he take a moment on the river to think about value betting a weak Q or T.

i agree w/ devin for the most part...

i'd fold pre, c/c flop, as played i'd at least consider bettimg river for value but if i checked i'd probably fold to anything reasonable. i think people would tend to call with a worse ten the way you played it but not bet one if checked to.

i don't think your flop and turn line combined accomplish anything... raise size is off and i think you need to bet turn if you are going to c/r flop

I can't remember why I called pf. I agree this is usually a fold. My plan on the flop was to c/r and then shut down. I was trying to give up on the turn since that card doesn't improve my hand and after he called the c/r on the flop I figure he must have a Q. He checked behind on the river. I was just curious as to what hands bet the river after checking the turn as he did that would be ahead.

I just reread my post ref. cleinen's AT hand and come off as an ass. That wasn't my intention and he and I talk alot on aim.

PF it depends on pf raiser but usually fold 90%+ of the time

Flop I like the C/C line.

River I think is a perfect spot for check/call almost any river below a pot sized one. Even then I'm tempted to call eventhough potsized bet almost always equals the nuts for non maniacs.

"My plan on the flop was to c/r"

Why? What were you hoping to accomplish?

edit - specifically, to that size?

To either take the pot down or be able to c/f most turn cards. I am not saying it was the right plan just the plan I had. The bet size is a screwup it should have been to 14 but I messed up there.

"I am not saying it was the right plan just the plan I had."

nah, I feel you... not trying to come off as critical or anything, really just asking stuff like that b/c sometimes the best way to make yourself think about a hand is to try to list out reasons exactly why you did what you did... sometimes it isn't always easy, but ideally you'd have sound reasoning behind every play you make.

anyway, the size is definitely too small, i think 14 would also be too small. those sizes just don't do anything... they don't charge draws enough, they don't make a better queen consider folding. maybe a worse 10 actually calls, but i think the negatives outweigh the positives, and this is more true the smaller you c/r to.

devin said "c/r is meh. It's a drawy flop and you get looked up a lot. You are then playing a bloated pot oop. This is like my least favourite line" and i think he's spot on with this advice.

being OOP sucks enough as it is, there's no reason to make life more difficult by bloating the pot with 2nd pair. also, there's really nothing wrong w/ c/fing the turn anyway even if you just c/c the flop. you could also c/c flop and bet blank turns; that would cost you about the same as a check/raise (unless the turn doesn't blank off) but might be a better play overall. this might not be true if villain is good and capable of shoving the turn with a draw or a good queen but a lot of people at nl100 aren't that aggro.

PokerStars Game #16995140384: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/04/25 - 22:11:00 (ET)
Table 'Tubingia' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: bengiec ($245.30 in chips)
Seat 2: trip-bluff ($67 in chips)
Seat 3: CloseTwin ($204 in chips)
Seat 4: FlareMVP ($701 in chips)
Seat 5: guynearottaw ($162.20 in chips)
Seat 6: greg1osu ($338.85 in chips)
CloseTwin: posts small blind $1
FlareMVP: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bengiec [Qh Qs]
guynearottaw: folds
greg1osu: raises $6 to $8
bengiec: calls $8
trip-bluff: folds
CloseTwin: calls $7
FlareMVP: raises $37 to $45
greg1osu: raises $60 to $105
bengiec: raises $140.30 to $245.30 and is all-in

greg1osu is a nit, but he is capable of doing random ****/definitely resqueezing
flaremvp is taggish, definitely capable of squeezing.

i've severely underepped my hand here, can i profitably shove ?

The likelihood that one is one a squeeze and the other is on a resqueeze seems awfully slim to me.

1. I believe QQ is the best hand here.

2. I am confronted with evidence that QQ is not the best hand here.

3. Hmm, for some reason QQ must still be good here.


(it's all a link)

Posted in HU NL as well:

Sorry can't find the HH. I just stacked the guy and asked him to rebuy full so he did. He was tilting for a little bit but seems to have calmed down. He has about a 47$ stack I am at 79$ish. He is pretty loose passive. One hand he called two streets with bottom pair TK and I pushed him off it on the river.

PF
Villain: $47
Hero: $79
Hero is in the BB: 7h 7d

Preflop
Villain calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2.50, Villain calls $2

Flop: 5d 8c 9c ($5 pot)
Hero bets $4, Villain calls $4

Turn: 5d 8c 9c Kh ($13 pot)
Hero bets $11, Villain calls $11

River: 5d 8c 9c Kh 4s ($35 pot)
Hero goes all in....(his stack is $30 at this point)

Ok so lets go through my thought here. Preflop he has been limping alot, I like to raise a bunch when I decide to raise from the BB and its obviously for value. On the flop I don't mind my hand I have a gutshot and set outs. The board is drawy and I want to define his hand a little more. I am always folding to a raise here. If I get bluffed by draws so bet he hasn't shown any flop aggression yet.

The turn Kh seems like a great double barreling card for me. I near pot it and I believe all draws fold. Straights I think try to get it in here as well as 2pair type hands. I really think we can polarize his range to something like 1 pair or PP TT-AA.

The river is a total blank. Since he called two streets with bottom pair once I wouldn't put it past him to do it again. I also think I fold nines quite a bit here by making the overbet shove.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

what are you trying to say? that i'm trying to justify not folding QQ ?

Yah looks that way.

Like I said the chance they are both squeezing is pretty small so it's pretty likely you'll get it in bad here a ton.

squeeze resqueeze happens all the time aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh have i lost my mind

1. Did I play this fine 'til the river?
2. Now what?

Villain is 46/14/3.4

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) IPoker Game#954017589

SB ($99)
BB ($50)
WSOPChamp2010 ($75.20)
UTG+1 ($116.45)
Hero ($101.50)
BTN ($54.15)

Dealt to Hero KA

WSOPChamp2010 raises to $6, fold, call, fold, fold, fold,

FLOP ($13.50) 75K

WSOPChamp2010 bets $8, Hero calls $8,

TURN ($29.50) 75K7

check, check,

RIVER ($29.50) 75K75

WSOPChamp2010 bets $61.20, Hero?

Yeah, that was it. You're calling him a nit, but you're looking for a reason to be ahead. I think it's very common and natural to try to come up with reasons to stick with a hand once you have decided you like it.

Also, you could read the link. It's pretty interesting.

Karp I'm 3betting this guy. He's opening a good amount, he's a little short, and he's the type who will get it in pre with you with AJo.

As played I'm betting the turn when he checks. On the river as played I'm calling but I'm a huge station and I think a fold is probably correct.

i'm a psychology major.

i'll fold next time. fwiw greg folded to the action of me shoving and other guy shoving. QQ imo.