WTF? Call and play for set/showdown value ldo.

So I go by the local upscale watering hole tonight because I'm sick of losing 80-20s.

And I spend a good half-hour talking about the intricacies of waxing the male scrotum with a slammin' female esthetician.

And I walk her to her pickup truck. Then we make out for a while. Then she drives away.

I've decided my life is very, very strange.

Wait a minute, isn't this the [censored] thread???

Ah, F it, nobody remembers me here anyway.

Agree w/ piney (yarly!), if you're 16/14 you gotta flat. If CO was shorter then you can squeeze hoping to get in pre with either CO or SB. If you were 24/20 then we can talk about 3-betting for value vs an UTG raiser, but I get the feeling you arent generally a squeeze machine so dont turn TT into a bluff.

I don't think we need to take dipstik's 16/14 image into account so much after just 2 orbits at this table. It is very unlikely anyone has noticed.

Calling is going to make things difficult here I think. When he flops an overpair he's going to get in trouble a good amount of the time and when he flops an underpair it's going to be very difficult to continue so he ends up with a second best hand when he gets action a lot and ends up folding the best hand a lot.

On the other hand there is a ton of dead money in the pot and he should be happy to get it in against the half stacks(1 is an idiot and the other has a pretty well defined calling range for the first bet). So while 3betting turns TT into a bluff vs UTG, there is so much overlay and the hand is difficult to play OOP in a 4 way pot that I think it's the best option.

Yah it's a stack size issue, get evryone shorter like in an MTT or STT it's an easy squeeze/call.

its not so much that he has a tight image, but that he needs a loose one i think. postflop id just felt vs anyone w/ less than 50bbs with an overpair

True on the second part. As for the first I think these days people think general TAGs are 3betting and especially squeezing a lot more than they are.

If we just call don't we end up turning TT into a bluff against UTG anyway when we flop an overpair? There might be some value in leading into UTG and getting a call from a weaker part of his range that connects in some way, but I don't think that happens all that often and when it does it's still really tough to get to showdown. So since we end up turning our hand into a bluff a lot postflop, TT doesn't play too well multiway, and we want to protect our preflop equity I like a 3bet best.

MrTeddyKGB always min raises opens the ****ing **********. He used to play 5/10 way back in the day before most people got some kind of a clue one year ago.
**** him and his min raises, if he has bare odds to set mine he will so jack him up.

As played, I think I would bet close to pot or check call any, I even like c/r all in sometimes to say **** you when he pops you with two pair that he can never lay down thinking your range is polarized to bluffs/ a Q.

I would make a big 3 bet to $40. Both CO and SB are stupidly short and they protect the pot a bit and help to prevent UTG from making a move. If he does I'm stacking off anyway vs those numbers.

edit: Oh, only two orbits...nevermind about those numbers then, they mean a lot less. I'd lean towards calling and going from there. But against 3 players there isn't much to plan for except getting the right kind of flop and action.

Why does our 16/14 image matter? (forget it's only 2 orbits for this) It should help us in this spot, no? Also, I think CO is short enough to where our TT is doing excellent vs whatever he called with and would be happy to get it in vs him PF.

If UTG was really a 35/35/6 over say 150 hands, would you still be calling with TT? Obviously you can't be making a big mistake by calling, but with the combination of the two short preflop callers and a virtual maniac raising UTG I'm not really squeezing, I'm raising for value and dead money. (I'd consider his EP raising range first, but if he's 35/35 overall, he's probably near or over 20% from UTG).

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $25.55
CO: $8.30
BTN: $69.30
Hero (SB): $49.50
BB: $87.30
UTG: $73.70

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with J J
1 fold, MP raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, MP calls $3

Flop: ($8.50) 2 A A (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP calls $5

Turn: ($18.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $5, Hero calls $5

River: ($28.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $11, Hero calls $11


I hated the way I played this hand, and it's a common situation good pair AAx flop, what should I have done here on all streets? Villain was 2af/11pfr/22

i'd check/call flop & check/fold subsequent streets

48 BBs not short enough for you? Idk, I think it's pretty borderline and to be honest I wouldn't really mind trying it here. Numbers look good to me to pull it if they're over big enough samples to be useful. UTG is opening a lot, I'd expect him to fold more than enough of the time... CO is LAG, so I'd expect him to have 3bet most of his range that we're behind, and who cares about SB

I'd do this but it would really depend on villain, his 22/11/2 isn't enough for me to make the decision. The river bet is just small enough I'd talk myself into calling since they always bet big on the river after donking other streets with an Ace.

I like the small c-bet on the flop, and then c/f. But damn he's milking a station like me.

yeah i'm not convinced he has an ace, but i'm not convinced that he doesn't either. also random crap like KQ is pretty likely. all-in all i just think it's a spew, not necessarily a huge spew but a spew nonetheless, to go into check/call mode here.

plus a lot of villains at these stakes just don't have any concept of bet sizing anyway, so you can't really gather a ton of info just because they make a weird sized bet.

Your stats matter because you want him to think you are squeezing him light so he 4 bets light. I really think it's a perfect opportunity to squeeze since he'll stack off with at least JJ+ AK+ and probably mix in AQ+ and random suited cards in there enough to make it good. With CO being short it looks even better since we don't have to start crying when he shoves on us when utg folds.

I think the hand has a lot of gameflow meta game behind it. If OP hadn't played a hand yet then I don't think squeezing is such a great idea. However, if we have had at least 1-2 hands vs utg then it's probably good.

I agree, but I think it might be better to cbet the flop rather than c/c. This defines villain's hand a bit more and it lessens the chance of being bluffed off the best hand on later streets. After getting called on the flop I think its time to shut down because we're getting milked so often.

I don't mind a flop bet but you have to shutdown after that once called. I think the flop bet is good since lower pocket pairs are much more likely to call a flop bet than a turn bet when an overcard falls. Turn and river are both spewy without reads that the guy is a joker.

What I'm saying is that our core "16/14" stats shouldn't really say anything about our "squeezing" frequency (again, forget that it's only been two orbits). If anything our 16/14 stats should tell him we probably have a hand and he'll fold 95% of the time (not to mention we're raising an UTG raiser and have two short callers in the hand now). And like you said, if he winds up actually shoving, as long as AQ and a small % of random whatever we're doing fine with the dead money. Now if we are 16/14 *and* we've been getting silly with 3-bets/squeezes, that's what affects this more, but you touched on that with the meta-game thing.

Villain is pretty unknown, I think he was 27/27 after 15-20 hands. This is my first big hand at the table. It's a fairly simple hand but bet sizing and possible turn bluff cards are things I'm still working on perfecting.

Was wondering what is standard on the turn. Given no prior history with villain, seems like bet/call would be the best option as it probably folds out a lot of overpairs. I have a fear that everyone always floats me so was thinking about check/shoving for value.

Ended up betting $69 on turn. Seemed enough to show that I was committed and his 88 was no good. How's the flop bet?

Also, do you double barrell if a non diamond king comes on the turn?




Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $229.25
UTG: $216
MP: $142.10
CO: $201.20
BTN: $361.20
SB: $241.75

Pre-Flop: Q A dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, CO raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero raises to $21, CO calls $15

Flop: ($43) 4 4 3 (2 Players)
Hero bets $27, CO calls $27

Turn: ($97) 3 (2 Players)
Hero ???

I don't know what is standard, but I have to think villain has an overpair and is not folding. so I would check turn.

This type of thinking would be correct at 25 and 50 nl because people dont fold as often there.

At 200, I think I'd want more of a read that villain is capable of folding that type of hand. 15-20 hands is a small sample, but 27/27 seems like its very possible if he has 55 - 99, he might dump it after you fire the second barrel. I think I'd want a better read before trying that, but if he is a thinking player, he can probably see you are committed.

I dont know if a non d K changes much or not. His range probably doesn't include many K's, although he probably has you on AK, so maybe it helps your FE.

xPeru's JJ hand:

I don't really like betting if you have to shut down when you get called. I mean, I wouldn't go betting 3 streets very often, but villains peel so light there is definitely value in betting the flops kinda like this.

That being said, I'd rather bet a flop where they are more likely to bet worse hand for value when I check to them. Like AAT or AA9 or something that's they'll more reasonable think there T9 is good. AA2, they generally aren't going to bet 66 for value when checked to. Putting you in a tough spot when they do call your flop lead.

So, I'm saying in this specific hand I c/c the flop.

As played, I c/c the turn cause of the size, but I think I find a fold on the river. although what's he value betting? Obv an A. But does he have a Q here very often? He's not really valuebetting TT, 99 etc. (I forget, what was the river?). Anyway, w/o a read that this guy floats a lot, and will fire two barrels after the float, I think you need to give up.

AQ hand:

Well, I think this is a spot I'd price my own draw. I don't think he's shoving on us very often here, so we should be able to buy ourselves a cheap river. I'd bet like 1/2 pot, maybe even less. I don't think he's folding very often with this turn, but our hand is just two strong for me to c/f as well.

If I had a good read, I'd c/shove (cause c/shoving looks stronger than just double barreling) this a lot if I thought he could fold like 88-. It's hard to say exactly what his range is here, because 27/27s don't fold to 3-bets that often, so I think most pps are in their range.