No Utg thought MP folded AA, which I think means something if he can 4bet vs a supposed AA

kleath that chat is as likely to mean he's bluffing as it is to mean you're beat. I def call down there but tbh folding and calling are probably extremely close im just a variance junkie.

People put so much BS in the chat, myself included. The way the hands played out, MP is way more likely to have a set than UTG. UTG can have so many stupid overpairs, and also might think he needs the fold equity with a hand like TT, and can squeeze by pushing.

Thanks for the comments everybody, I tanked and ended up folding, I think I shouldve got it in but I think one of my general problems has been being way too stationy so Im glad I am able to make a tough laydown if I need to(even though it may not have been right this time)

He claimed KK after which I dunno if I believe but certainly possible.

Also this is probably why I shouldnt be playing deep tables yet.

My default 3 bet size assuming no reads here would be bigger but I don't think that this is bad, I was at this table for about 3 hours and was getting no action on my 3bets so I varied my raise size a little.

Sorry about the BBVish post, won't happen again.

To expand on what I said before, I think the point is "You're always representing something." What you're doing when make a "nuts or nothing" push like that without the nuts is coercing your opponent into playing correctly and making a call with a hand that beats the "nothing" portion of your range. Good players can identify those situations and call with what look like very weak hands (Allan Sass, J-high, no kicker). You are just making it blindingly obvious you have the nuts or nothing, and because the nuts don't make any sense given the way you played the hand, even a dim opponent will then consider you could be bluffing.

Sometimes it's necessary to suck out to a scare card to win a pot. If the board effectively bricks out, there might not be a way you can win the pot enough of the time to make up for what you lose when you fail, so the $0 option to give up is best.

Kleath,

I think once that 22 hand gets heads up I can't fold it. If there is huge multiway action it's a very different story but if MP folds I'd be felting.

Well with such a small 3bet size you're offering great implied odds which you don't want to do.

Also, the solution to getting no action on your 3bets isn't to 3bet smaller, it's to 3bet more frequently until they adjust.

I think there are players out there who play so weak that you don't need to worry about what you're repping. They are few and far between though, and I think that it's bad to get into the habit of bluffing without representing a legitimate and probable hand in your range.

I only have 40 hands on villian, he's been running 30/25/2 over that sample. First hand is superstandard, but he gets angry after before the real one.
Hand before
Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

halarsen (UTG): $20.70
UCbananaboy (CO): $49.25
Hero (BTN): $57.15
Rabaul (SB): $50.00
JupiterUWG (BB): $169.45

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with T A
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, JupiterUWG raises to $6.25, Hero calls $4.50

Flop: ($12.75) K 4 J (2 players)
JupiterUWG bets $11, Hero calls $11

Turn: ($34.75) 4 (2 players)
JupiterUWG bets $152.20 all in, Hero calls $39.90 all in

River: ($114.55) 9

Final Pot: $114.55
Hero shows Ts As (a flush, Ace high)
JupiterUWG shows Kd Ac (two pair, Kings and Fours)
Hero wins $111.55
(Rake: $3.00)


He gets pissy in the chat, OMG THAT IS SO SICK and whatnot, then the very next hand is
Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

halarsen (BB): $20.70
UCbananaboy (UTG): $49.25
Hero (CO): $111.55
Rabaul (BTN): $49.75
JupiterUWG (SB): $112.30

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with J J
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, JupiterUWG calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.00) 9 T 5 (2 players)
JupiterUWG checks, Hero bets $4, JupiterUWG calls $4

Turn: ($12.00) 9 (2 players)
JupiterUWG checks, Hero bets $9, JupiterUWG calls $9

River: ($30.00) 3 (2 players)
JupiterUWG checks, Hero bets $25, JupiterUWG raises to $60,


Board is fairly drawy, but the river came with a huge blank. Valuebet is standard, right? Does a guy like this c/r bluff this small with 78/JQ/hearts or c/r for valuebluff Tx here enough to call the c/r.

Slim he isn't repping nuts or air there his range is basically missed draws maybe TT anything I bet for value on that river I would call.

Velocity,
As much as it sucks to fold there you only beat a bluff and nobody bluffs there.

Chat is usually the nuts, but KK can be the nuts there.

That's a good point and I agree in general. I do think your statement can have more/less value depending on table dynamics though. Once a player is decent/good or a thinking player in general they will of course adjust but alot of weak/bad players have little to no thought process at all, let alone thinking " Well he's 3 betting me lighter now, I'm getting better implied odds plus I'll be able to float more depending on board texture since his range is wider." And at 50nl there are quite a few droolers who aren't going to adjust their style of play imo.

That being said, I agree that increasing my 3bet% while keeping the amount the same will make more $. I made a number of fundamental mistakes last night near the end of my session when my brain was mush that I wasn't very proud of.

Actually the lighter you 3bet the worse their implied odds are.

Heh yea, I only included the implied odds comment because of the size of my 3bet, not because I was 3betting lighter.

Thoughts on this? I do it rarely, against 23/20 types who have been 3betting me light out of the blinds. Sexy/Spew?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $48.00
Earendil (SB): $72.85
Party_Kid555 (BB): $50.00
dozo5 (UTG): $41.25
muteone (MP): $49.35
resetdave (CO): $58.10

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 8 7
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, Earendil raises to $4.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 1 fold

fyp

Calling in position is fine as well.

Speaking of repping a hand and calling a river...

Live Home $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players

Hero (UTG+1): $280
Villain (UTG): $300

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG+1 with __, __
Villain posts a "LIVE $5 STRADDLE"
Hero raises to $20, all fold to villain, Villain calls $15

Flop: ($42) 952 (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $30, Villain quickly raises to $70, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($282) 6 (2 players)
Villain bets $50, Hero calls $50

River: ($114.55) 7
Villain shoves, Hero can call with what hands???

Hero has about $140.
Villain seemed like a good player, and is aggressive.
Hero looks like a super tight nit.
Hero has raised his live straddles a few times already.

The reason I'm posting this is it seems like villain is repping the nutz or he has air here. I don't think he would even bet a set here (or at least not shove it).

You say he's not repping anything. I'm saying what he's repping makes no sense. You're starting from the beginning and working forward. I'm starting from the end and working backward. I think it's mostly a semantic difference.

do you guys ever flat call with solid suited connectors, 78s, 98s, T9s etc ? i'm always more inclined to 3bet these. why would you call over raise ? i'm sure theres lots of variables that go into play here. if i do call, i'm only calling with position and rarely if i'm not on the button.

i generally flatcall with 22-88/99/TT. sometimes i 3bet 99/TT depending on villain

Sounds like we play them very similar. I like to 3-bet with suited connectors (in position) along with my really big hands and flat call the small and medium pairs.

I will flat call with SC's but infrequently. Always with position and usually only against a villain I know is very tight preflop and willing to stack off with top pair/overpair hands on the flop.

bengie,
MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Seriously it depends on a ton of variables against guys who don't fold I call and wait to flop the nuts, multiway pots I call a lot, I would rarely fold something like 78s on the button, but if I three bet every time I would be three betting like 15% of hands, which is pretty ludicrous.

I call with SCs vs nits and occasionally against TAGs or LAGs but typically 3bet vs TAGs/LAGs

I'd call with 88. I dont think I would have played T8 or 99 this way, but if I had Id call with those.

mutliway pots i am more inclined to call w/ SC's when the player is tight. when the player is opening wide i'm more inclined to raise with SC's because of implied odds.