I really dont even use stats in my decisions unless i have like 1k+ hands on someone, or the decision is super super marginal either way. I really only use HUD to catch the extremes (50+VPIPs, ridiculous 8/4 nits) and see mucked cards at showdown.

Yeah, I just commented on that bc I think a lot of people put way too much stock into stats. I know I used to.

Anyway, at some point I might bring back my HUD and set it to only display stats if someone is an extreme like you said. I guess there's a way to set it to only show up if they're like 40%+ VPIP or 10%-. The thing about those guys is you can usually spot them in an orbit or 2 anyway... so who knows maybe I won't even bother.

When we gonna play HU?

Wiggs - if you play futuredoc HU can I sweat on logmein...?

i imagine it would be fine for anyone to, but yeah i certainly don't care. it's nothing big but i had mentioned to him it might be good practice to play against each other sometime. we'd play well below our normal stakes... i don't have any beef with him... yet

ha ha - I didn't think you did. Just thought it would be a good opportunity to start learning a bit about heads up play by watching two good players battle.

ty ty let me know if this gets booked. (assuming futuredoc doesn't care if I sweat.)

I disagree completely about not having a HUD. I'd say the majority of the money I've made the past month in cash has been because of Holdem Manager. Knowing guys opening, stealing, 3 bet, fold to 3 bet, and a host of other stats is so hugely +$EV. Even if you rarely use the stats it's pretty dumb not to have them in case you need them.

Also, Holdem manager + a AHK to open tables to datamine is awesome for game selection.

DD, fwiw I played cash for most of 06 and all of 07 using a HUD.

Anyway, I wasn't suggesting for everyone to stop using a HUD, I was just saying that I think other things like notes and paying attention to tendencies that can't be captured by stats are more important than the stats. That's all. Everyone keep using your HUDs, by all means.

I think HUD is crucial for beginning players wayyy more so than for an experienced (well experienced and good) cash player. I have a really good feel for things like how wide people are stealing, how they are reacting to LP raises or c-bets, how wide they are 3-betting, etc. now, but during the first few months of my cash career HUD was a vital part of my game rather than just a convenience.

If you play on FTP then HUD becomes ridiculously more valuable as a tool than it is on stars (which is pretty much where all of my play is) because you will have thousands of hands on every reg. On stars, since you cant datamine, making decisions based on those types of statn s based on a couple hundred or even a thousand or so hands is going to do as much harm as it does good. I think 99% of 2p2ers on stars massively overuse HUD stats in their decision making considering you will rarely have more thaa few hundred or a couple thousand hands on someone even if they are a reg.

let me finish this god-forsaken prop bet today and then give me a couple days to stay the hell away from poker and we'll be good to go.

HUDs are valuable, but you can't be over-reliant on them.

I'll sell you Stars datamined hands

Reading SSNL is so funny. Everyone there thinks they are the **** and everyone else is spewy. Most of them have no clue about sample size especially when it comes to evaluating some decent random that they've played one session with.

Yeah. They're also huge victims of groupthink. Groupthink is a big problem with a lot of forums on 2+2 though.

JB,

I also like $35 on the turn. As played I don't mind your river play and would probably be folding if the river bet were big enough. I just wanted to make the point that if you have a read you should make a different play based on that read.

I don't mind betting less if you really think that's all he can call with a draw or a smaller pair.

Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP): $594.70
adtina22 (CO): $428.00
FredAllin (BTN): $132.40
TheJonesez (SB): $394.75
camptheblunt (BB): $80.00
gambler2k4 (UTG): $1406.40

Pre Flop: Hero is MP with A Q
gambler2k4 raises to $12, Hero calls $12, adtina22 calls $12, 3 folds

Flop: ($42.00) T 6 Q (3 players)
gambler2k4 checks, Hero bets $28, adtina22 folds, gambler2k4 calls $28

Turn: ($98.00) 9 (2 players)
gambler2k4 checks, Hero bets $72, gambler2k4 raises to $212


He is gambler2k4, and hes about 19/15 and capable of spewing postflop. I have like 0 respect for his game and in-game I was almost positive I knew exactly which 2 cards he held but I figured Id get some thoughts here. Help me with the turn and we can talk about river if/when we get there

That looks an awful lot like a Jx hand. JJ or JTs are the most likely I think. Given that, I'd probably shove and expect to get looked up by those hands and any of the Tx hands that have spades.

assuming you called i like it based on the the reads and who it is.

villain has 99 ?

Just sat, first hand vs villain and I have him at 43/13/inf over 23 hands.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $83.80
UTG: $105.10
Hero (MP): $98.50
CO: $91.90
BTN: $115.60
SB: $82.90

Pre Flop: Hero is MP with K Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, BTN calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9.50) 8 5 Q (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $7, BTN raises to $16, BB folds, Hero calls $9

Turn: ($41.50) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $23, Hero folds

I have no clue but would assume you'd call and get it in on a blank on the river?

I'm always lost on dry boards like this vs non maniacs. Villain is 22/7 with a 63% fold to cbet. Just doesn't seem like I'm good here 1/3 of the time here.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $198.55
SB: $131.65
BB: $217.95
UTG: $162.90
Hero (MP): $200
CO: $80.65

Pre-Flop: J J dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $7, CO folds, BTN calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: ($17) 3 2 Q (2 Players)
Hero bets $13, BTN calls $13

Turn: ($43) 6 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($43) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $22, Hero folds

Results: $43 Pot ($2.15 Rake)
BTN mucked and WON $40.85 (+$20.85 NET)

v-bet river for $30 or so

edit: once you check i like the fold

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $82.35
Hero (CO): $99.50
BTN: $101.35
SB: $63.20
BB: $101.95
UTG: $99.60

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 8 8
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($9.00) 7 Q 7 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $9

Turn: ($33.00) A (2 players)
SB checks


Standard 2 barrel spot or is that bluffing with the best hand too often?

Villain is 15/10/1.5 fairly small sample no other reads yet.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $135.55
SB: $300.20
BB: $105.90
UTG: $46.35
UTG+1: $30.70
UTG+2: $72.75
MP1: $103.45
Hero (MP2): $220.40
CO: $167.80

Pre Flop: Hero is MP2 with Q Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, CO raises to $9, 4 folds, Hero raises to $25, CO calls $16

Flop: ($52.50) T 3 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $40, CO raises to $142.80 all in, Hero is pretty sure he may have effed things up?

I had 52 hands on the CO, his stats were 40/17/2.

I'm not sure what he might do this with. I was thinking 88,99, JJ, AKs, maybe AQs, is what I beat and TT, KK, AA have me beat. What do you think?

Flopton,

He either has a club draw, is trying to make it look like he does, maybe has AA and is trying for value against KK, or is making a weird bluff.

You 4 bet pre, so he's gotta be at least entertaining the idea that you have AA or KK.

He min3bet you pre, so I'd at least entertain the idea that he has AA or KK.

At this point I think it's pretty close, but if I had 4 bet preflop it certainly would have been with the intention of getting it all in either preflop or on any flop w/o A or K. If I were going to do this I would have raised to more like $35 pre. I would definitely consider just calling the 3 bet pre though. That would depend on more details of how villain was playing and what my image would be.