karp,

Tough spot because for some people it's always a bluff and for some people it's always the nuts (could be 99 or 77 sometimes - also AA maybe) and we don't know this person at all.

I don't think I play enough to give a really good answer about the average player here, but I'd fold even though he could well be thinking "karp doesn't have a T."

I would have bet more on the turn.

I don't hate his river bet with a lot of hands depending on how he plays.

Here's a move I don't do too often but think about doing very often.

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $384.60
SB: $281.75
BB: $238.50
UTG: $202.20
CO: $195.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with A Q
1 fold, CO raises to $8, Hero raises to $28, 2 folds, CO calls $20

Flop: ($59.00) Q 6 J (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $356.60 all in, CO calls $167 all in

Turn: ($393.00) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($393.00) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Kind of fitting for the SNG forum, right.
So the idea is that you want to rep a draw to induce a hero call.

Opponent is 21/14/2.0/586 hands and doesn't fold to cbet very often 38.

What do you think?

karp you need to be betting like $16-$20 on that turn, and probably fold the river but i cant hate you for calling

MS if he has 500+ hands on you and he hasnt seen you overbet shove a draw like this then i dont expect it to work hardly ever, + he folds a lot of draws that might c/r you on the flop, so just b/c imo.

MS, are there that many made hands that he can call with? He'll have to worry about overcard outs as well as the straight and flush draws and should definitely expect to be behind your range.

I love overbetting though, so I dunno.

MS, that seems like a better move for HU's play. With little history between you two I doubt he's calling with much worse than a Q and there's at least a decent shot you'll get his stack if he's got a Q. Also, with a fold to cbet of 36% I doubt he's folding many mid pocket pairs to a cbet.

Two 3bet/4bet hands.

#1 Villain is 27/22 and his 3bet% is 9 over 1.7k hands. 9 is high imo imo imo. My plan was A) to call and raise his ass AI on most flops but the I remember I was a chicken and prolly folding many flops that I don't hit TP+ so I went B) with my STT intincts.

Hero raises to $4 from UTG A K
3 folds
SB raises to $14 (stack $100)
BB folds
Hero pushes all-in for $100




#2. Villain is standard TAG, calls maybe too much 3bets. He probably has Hero's 3bet% around 5. Because I pretty much have to fold to a CRAI on flop I decided to check behind and bet a blanc turn if he checks second time. I was also thinking of raising his turn bet but then got into chicken mode again. Is my chicken mode ok? Stacks $100.

UTG folds
UTG+1 bets $4
CO folds
Hero raises to $14 A K
Blinds fold
UTG+1 calls

Flop 7 9 T
Villains checks
Hero checks

Turn 6 (pot $30)
Villain bets $20
Hero folds

Karp - I think both hands seem fine. The first one - I like having AKs in position HU, but the stack sizes are ok for shoving so I think its ok to shove and hopefully he decides to look you up with AQ.

The second one - I have trouble in these spots too, but I think getting away from your hand on that board is probably best.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $71.65
MP: $265.30
CO: $193.45
Hero (BTN): $103.45
SB: $93.05
BB: $95.40

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q T
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($4.50) 4 4 K (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.50) J (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero

13 hands in,
BB is 0/0/0
UTG is 33/17/3
HJ is 31/15/0
Hero is 15/15/0

Whats the standard line here and why?

punish the limpers pf.

Karp -

In hand 1 most villains will put you on AK as soon as you 4-bet shove there so unless you have lots of interesting history with this guy I think you're kind of turning your hand face up imo. I would prolly just make a fairly small 4-bet, or flat call and play a flop with position, but this depends on recent history.

Hand 2 I would bet that flop. It's going to be difficult for him to continue without at least a big diamond and you can safely muck if this standard TAG plays back at you here. I think you're going to take down the pot a good % of the time c-betting here.

On what do you base that? I belive that Villain will c/r with TT+, any big diamond and maybe straight draws. Not to mention all the other made hands. Obv he'll lead some of these hands but his c/r range is frightening wide here, no?

In order to call profitably against this loose 3bettor I need to be pushing over his cbet on many flops that I miss. And since his range is wide I'd have to play a quessing game on most flops. So I'd be more happy to call here if the raiser was tighter.

(awaiting for corrections obv)

Right - but your equity completely sucks against just about anything he plays back at you with, he's unlikely to make a move with complete air, and he could have lots of stuff that's ahead of you that he might muck.

This is true and it's why I said sometimes I would 4-bet small and sometimes I would call depending on recent history. If you've recently called and/or folded to a bunch of his 3-bets, and now you go ahead and 4-bet, you give him a much easier decision.

Sometimes you just have to flat preflop here and jam it in on the flop with AK unimproved (and obviously when you flop a draw) on some flops a certain percent of the time.

This is all imo imo imo. I'm kind of just sticking my toe in the water so to speak with learning how to play against aggressive players.

karp- dont worry a/b guessing games just shove when you have 2 overs or better as long as the board isnt like 3 flushed in a suit u dont have

So this would be my ultimate weapon against all the loose 3bettors with ATC?

well I meant with AK/AQ specifically, since you have blockers that make AA/KK less likely hands for them. Also you'd better be damn sure they are 3-betting light because doing this vs nits is a good way to drop 10 buyins in an hour. Just use some common sense as far as when to do it but yes, its a good way to play back at habitual 3-bettors, especially those who do it out of the blinds constantly vs your LP raises.

You really need to be careful who you pull this stuff against, especially at 100nl. I remember experimenting with it against all the light 3betting regs. Most of them were looking me up with any pair without adequate history.

I think everyone who posts in this thread agrees that popping it PF is the "standard" line. But I can't imagine that limping behind a couple of loose players on the button is a mistake. We're not playing it as a top-pair type hand for stacks when we limp.

As played, I think the flop is a great flop to take a stab at for $2.50 and re-evaluating depending on who calls. You have a lot of back door possibilities and scare cards for those 22-88 type hands that limped.

As played by the turn, nobody is interested and you've got an OESD, stab here now.

PF is most interesting to me. It seems like whenever we play a pot, we have to be raising. Is it always wrong to limp behind in position with hands that are good multi-way? Especially at nl100 where these guys aren't super-aggressive?

no but QTs has too much value not to raise. i'd rather limp something like 56o behind

well assuming they look you up with any pair, and also assuming they are 3betting plenty of SCs and broadway hands, and lastly assuming they are c-betting most flops whether they hit or miss (all pretty reasonable at 100NL i think). You're going to make money by calling and shoving rag flops between the times they dont have a pair and have to fold and your equity w/ 6+ outs most of the time. But like i said they have to be 3-betting light and you have to have enough hands on them to know for sure this is the case.

Mike,

Depending on the table and my image, I don't mind limping behind with QTs. Though, with a solid image my default is to pop it.

Yeah you're probably right. I think I'm just being results oriented over how horribly that experiment went.

On the road again.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($33.70)
SB ($49.20)
BB ($68.60)
Hero ($60)
MP ($94.25)
CO ($9.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A.
Hero raises to $2, MP raises to $6, 4 folds, Hero raises to $18, MP calls $12.

Flop: ($36.75) 2, 4, K (2 players)
Hero bets $25, MP folds.

Final Pot: $61.75

Villain 18/12/63.
How is it to just call 3 bet pf?
How is cr/ai flop?
How are betsizes?
I think he usually has JJ/QQ here and I'm not getting money in anyway after the flop, right?