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STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

01-18-2008 , 12:51 AM
Dipstik, I usually fold most hands to a min 4-bet bc its like KK (sometimes) and usually AA very often. If you think he can min 4-bet w/ QQ then fine (but its very unlikely).

I feel like an idiot for suggesting a fold here PF, but wtf would he min 4-bet that AK is crushing?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-18-2008 , 07:19 PM
Any of you guys play Full Ring ever? How does this game not get more love? I think anybody with a good 6max background should kill these games at ssnl. People never play back at you unless they have the nuts.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-18-2008 , 07:27 PM
Gunnip,
Hand 1 I would fold the turn for the reason micro said, note a lot of times I would say **** it and call when I'm playing my b/c game. River is close and depends on a lot of stuff if you call, I would never raise the turn.

2. I would check back this flop a lot like half the deck improves your hand and you aren't going to be getting that many folds out of worse.

3. I might fold pre. I might check turn, but I would never make a bet like that. As played shove river.

4. Fold river you don't beat anything.

5. Fold you might have the best hand now, but if you do you don't have great equity playing 200bbs deep in a limped pot OOP other streets are going to be really tough play and there aren't that many cards that really help you too much.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-18-2008 , 07:28 PM
Dipsitck,
Check his range of hands that puts in two or more bets is usually crushing you.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-18-2008 , 08:08 PM
I ended up folding the KJ and J9 hands on the turn and flop respectively.

the KQ rr pot villain called down with QQ. against a passive opponent I think I really like my line the more I think about it. It gets max value from underpairs this way. I could bet 30ish on the flop and maybe get a call from TT-QQ but they don't call another bet on the river and I save myself some money the times he was going for a c/r on the turn. eh?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-19-2008 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
Any of you guys play Full Ring ever? How does this game not get more love? I think anybody with a good 6max background should kill these games at ssnl. People never play back at you unless they have the nuts.
I ran like **** last night and watched part of a 9 handed vid today so I got the itch to play it. Full ring is pretty soft. I ran like **** again and lost less.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-19-2008 , 10:58 PM
Villain is ~ 32/9/2.67 in less than 100 hands. Please note that this is full ring.

I think I know the correct answer here, but I'll see what you guys think.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $95.85
Hero (SB): $132.35
BB: $40.60
UTG: $95
UTG+1: $116.95
UTG+2: $100
MP1: $70.70
MP2: $15
CO: $12.50

Pre-Flop: 7 7 dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($3) T J 7 (3 Players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $26, BB folds, MP1 calls $19

Turn: ($57) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $43.70 and is All-In, Hero pukes
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-19-2008 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
Villain is ~ 32/9/2.67 in less than 100 hands. Please note that this is full ring.

I think I know the correct answer here, but I'll see what you guys think.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $95.85
Hero (SB): $132.35
BB: $40.60
UTG: $95
UTG+1: $116.95
UTG+2: $100
MP1: $70.70
MP2: $15
CO: $12.50

Pre-Flop: 7 7 dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($3) T J 7 (3 Players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $26, BB folds, MP1 calls $19

Turn: ($57) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $43.70 and is All-In, Hero pukes
i'd raise pf with only one limper. if you had, you would be able to get it all in on this flop. on the turn he has a lot of pairs 2prs and draws that he'd play this way, so i'd probly call given the odds, you still have a lot of outs if you're behind.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-20-2008 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipstikdave
i'd raise pf with only one limper. if you had, you would be able to get it all in on this flop.
While raising preflop is fine and something I do a significant percentage of the time, calling is not a mistake here. I think always raising pre or always calling pre is probably more of a mistake than one or the other.

Your postflop comments make sense.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-20-2008 , 03:38 AM
In position, I'd always raise this preflop simply because the limper is a bad player and its so profitable to play raised pots with bad players in position. However being in the sb completing it definitely ok and is probably what I would do most of the time.

Against tighter opponents I'm folding this turn but villain here has a high AF and could be doing this two pair or pair+draw. Also we have 10 outs when behind so ship it.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-20-2008 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
Any of you guys play Full Ring ever? How does this game not get more love? I think anybody with a good 6max background should kill these games at ssnl. People never play back at you unless they have the nuts.
There are a handful of reasons that most people play 6-max rather than full.

1. You get more hands/hour at 6-max.
2. The early position hands that you're missing out on are the least profitable hands. At small stakes, this is partially countered by the fact that the extra players will be willing to play weak hands OOP.
3. To win money at high stakes, you have to be proficient in short handed play since there won't always be full tables. IMO, the transition from 6 => full is easier than the other way around.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-20-2008 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
Villain is ~ 32/9/2.67 in less than 100 hands. Please note that this is full ring.

I think I know the correct answer here, but I'll see what you guys think.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $95.85
Hero (SB): $132.35
BB: $40.60
UTG: $95
UTG+1: $116.95
UTG+2: $100
MP1: $70.70
MP2: $15
CO: $12.50

Pre-Flop: 7 7 dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($3) T J 7 (3 Players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $26, BB folds, MP1 calls $19

Turn: ($57) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $43.70 and is All-In, Hero pukes
ez call
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-20-2008 , 06:18 PM
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $91.90
SB: $16.20
BB: $484.45
Hero (CO): $168.10

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 4 4
Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, SB raises to $16.20 all in, 1 fold, Hero - whats the plan?

Shorty's range is very wide.

Button is 29/6/1.4 in 72 hands.
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01-21-2008 , 03:25 AM
cha I fold that everytime. If we were in BTN's spot I'd call everytime.
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01-21-2008 , 03:29 AM
I had been playing around 21/18 over the past week at 100nl and some of the aggro regs started 3betting me a lot and I couldn't really do much to counter it since my opening range was so wide. So today I decided to nit it up especially when regs were left to act behind me and lol I think I ended up 4betting ~half my range against their 3bets and not once did they 5 bet allin. I think I'm on to something.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
cha I fold that everytime. If we were in BTN's spot I'd call everytime.

same
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 10:37 AM
I'm going to start reviewing opponents in pokertracker. Things I think would be good to look at are,
-hand ranges by position
-3betting ranges, cold-calling ranges
-what they are cbetting, what they aren't
-what they c/r with

any other ideas/things that I should specifically look for?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
I had been playing around 21/18 over the past week at 100nl and some of the aggro regs started 3betting me a lot and I couldn't really do much to counter it since my opening range was so wide. So today I decided to nit it up especially when regs were left to act behind me and lol I think I ended up 4betting ~half my range against their 3bets and not once did they 5 bet allin. I think I'm on to something.

I'm also learning to play a solid LAG game and am going through some of the same issues regarding adjusting to frequently facing 3-bets.

The alternative adjustment to 4-betting lighter is to loosen up your calling range when you have position. This means that you will also often be calling with your very big hands rather than 4-betting.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 11:17 AM
Also is it possible to figure out how often somebody folds to a 3bet?
I'm unsure of what some of the stats mean, for example the Fold% stat here,



There is also a Fold% down further with the Player Actions part that concerns overall preflop,



What does the Fold% mean? I can't seem to find a PT definitions that define all of the abbreviations.

Can I draw any conclusions from No Flop% and Fold% ratios? Going through a few regs I get these No Flop%-Fold% ratios with att. to steal % in ()

46.34---27.87 (23.20)
61.80---16.85 (38.44)
53.83---26.29 (37.18)
54.72---23.45 (40.39)
53.96---21.77 (35.22)
59.49---16.03 (29.11)
53.42---19.23 (41.64)
52.19---19.05 (24.54)

Last edited by jgunnip; 01-21-2008 at 11:37 AM.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 01:14 PM
Jgunnip,
Hand 1: I like every street now fold.
Hand 2: I check back the flop sometimes. I also shove the turn sometimes. As played river is very close I',m leaning towards call but its very close. Villain is basically repping sets or KT and presumably he 3bets KK/TT fairly often. I would expect him to play QJ or any two spades like this a lot so I'd call now and expect to be good enough of the time.
Hand 3: I like your line except maybe pf.... I'd prob bet a littel bigger on the river but w/e
Hand 4:shrug, its a fold but call isn't too bad he'll show up with someting dumb enough.
Hand 5: Fold is good here
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01-21-2008 , 01:18 PM
WTF I'm the only one says call with A high nits...
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekHouse
There are a handful of reasons that most people play 6-max rather than full.

1. You get more hands/hour at 6-max.
2. The early position hands that you're missing out on are the least profitable hands. At small stakes, this is partially countered by the fact that the extra players will be willing to play weak hands OOP.
3. To win money at high stakes, you have to be proficient in short handed play since there won't always be full tables. IMO, the transition from 6 => full is easier than the other way around.

Greekhouse in the house!

How is life??
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 04:15 PM
Ive never played on any other site than the site I'm on (cash that is). For me it seems like the tables should be a lot juiced for this limit (NL100 6max).

Please describe your typical NL100 table on your site.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 04:22 PM
I've recently realized there is at least one fish on every single table I sit at.... :-)

Other than that, it depends. Usually at least 1 or 2 of the 50/8/sub 1 types, maybe an 11/9/3 nit, then some of the 25/10/2 types.

Sometimes there are 1 or 2 playing 20/18/4 or 18/16/3 or whatever but since they're usually good players I move along and find another table unless I have postion or I want to practice responding to getting 3-bet a lot.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
01-21-2008 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
I've recently realized there is at least one fish on every single table I sit at.... :-)
If you can't spot the sucker...

typical table for me is one or two multitablers, maybe a bad shortstack, and a couple of looser players than I'm looking to isolate and play pots with. I would say this is a typical table for FTP however the multitablers may or may not be good/nitty/aggro and the fish might be maniacs or passive. Sometimes I won't be looking to isolate the fish and will just be waiting for a good hand to play against them and sometimes I'll be looking to play pots with the multitabler by either 3betting him a ton in position or flatting his raises pf if he's a postflop donk. But I find all my tables are different and work really hard at evaluating and reevaluating each table I'm at.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote

      
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