I don't like to 3bet with AJ against these players since theyll call to "keep their face" all the time and ill be OOP with bad reverse implied odds and with a big pot and NOT likely to take it down with a cbet.

However if and when I decide to call these I just cant fold every flop that does not hit me with TP. So being OOP I felt like c/r was the only way to go. And my betsizing was for being able to call a shove or to push the turn.

Make sense?

lol devin

can you pm me that link jbrochu?

Mike - I call that weak ass river raise. Youre getting almost 4-1 so you only need to be ahead 20% of the time to break even and your hand is under-repped.

Karp - I like the way you played the hand for the reasons you stated. Your bet sizing was very good imo (can I still use imo without looking like an idiot here?).

Karp,

Little bit complicated I think. If you were playing a really good player you might have to think how the 8 is a bad card for a lot of your hands in this spot.

You are repping a few full houses and a ton of draws. I'd like other people's opinions on this, but I think a really good player would look you up light here.

Ok, this guy isn't a really good player. His stats are very loose and somewhat aggressive. His high AF might be an indication that he can fold postflop, but I wouldn't expect him to fold TP that much - he can certainly call with a draw - and if he floated with an 8 or even a 7 he either has a strong hand or a likely combo draw. I'd be a lot happier with a semi-bluff here if a King hit I think.

Check-raising a draw on the flop and missing and pushing on the turn is always a little ugly. Maybe it's better if the board is only somewhat coordinated instead of like this. On the other hand when he does fold any pair you do steal a lot of equity, so when it works you really pwn.

Since his AF is fairly high, there's a good chance he will either fold or raise if you donk the flop. Either is good for you. You can bet3bet him all in on the flop and still be ahead when he calls and never be in terrible shape. If he folds, that's fine too as you're never too far ahead.

Maybe there's some meta in there as well, because even though he probably isn't a reg, maybe some reg at the table will see that your donk bets don't always mean sets.

This is kind of just being a devil's advocate here. I think you played the hand fine.

Ha, outside the box! Would this line work against TAGs, too? What if I get called and the turn is that notorious 8? Check/fold or c/c if the bet is 1/2 pot?

Keeping things alive...

Villain is 26/7/2.1.. river aggression is 5.0 over 135 hands. I have been fairly active on this table. The river and turn puzzle me. Did I just make him bluff on the river? Would b/f be better or am I being results oriented? I would had called a smaller bet...


XXLaphroaig1 ($181.50)
lordhendrix ($88.80)
PuSHerBOT ($96.15)
AgnostosA ($113.20)
Firetribe ($102.40)
Vanloo ($171.46)

XXLaphroaig1 posts (SB) $0.50
lordhendrix posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe T A
fold, fold,
Firetribe raises to $3.50
call, fold, fold,

FLOP ($8.50) 8 5 T
Firetribe bets $6
Vanloo calls $6

TURN ($20.50) 4
Firetribe bets $13
Vanloo calls $13

RIVER ($46.50) 7
check,
Vanloo bets $37
Firetribe folds

Vanloo wins $81.20

Karp - looks to me like villain either slowplayed a flush, or got there with something like 66 77 87. I think I'd fold the river.

Karp, I have a really hard time putting guys like this on hands. This hand really doesn't make too much sense to me really. I wouldn't let his river aggression play into my decision at all because over only 135 hands that probably inlcudes just a few hands that made it to the river.

Preflop his callng range is obviously fairly wide and I would guess might even include pairs up to JJ plus a bunch of hands with an ace, any 2 broadways, SCs, etc.

His flop call could be a flush draw, straight draw like 67 or medium pair like 78, a T with a worse kicker like JT, or a medium pocket pair like 99, 77 or 66. You would think a set or or an overpair would raise on the flop, along with some of his flush draws and maybe straight draws. These guys you never know though.

On the turn, again you would think a made flush or straight would raise here to try and build the pot before any scare cards come like a 4th spade. Not sure what somebody that called the flop with a set or overpair would do here on the turn. Sometimes I see these guys call the flop when they should have raised, then go nutz on the turn when a terrible card comes for their hand. I could see the medium pairs like 66, 77, and 99 flat calling on the turn and maybe some hands like JT or QT also plus 78 picked up a gutshot so I think those make up a good part of his range. If he floated the flop with 2 overs including the ace of spades he might just call here as well.

On the river, you would think even a donk would check behind with the JT, QT, 99 type hands. He would probably only bet hands like 66 (which made a straight), 77 (set), 78 (2 pair) or maybe bluff with the bare ace of spades.

I would fold the river.

I probably missed some stuff and/or have some faulty logic in my analysis. I'm just starting to try to hand read.

hey guys.. i played my first 536 hand on cash game (.25-.50NL 6 max) and looking at PT stats "total reke 37.5$"! this is incredibly high for this level isn't it?? that really surprise me..

Basically I was thinking that line because his numbers suggested he was pretty TAG postflop. There are a lot of players I not as being very loose or even wild and crazy preflop, but something else postflop.

In some spots it is a very clear donk, because some players will raise a donk a lot with a hand that will fold to a 3bet push. I wouldn't say this villain is so likely to bluff raise your donk a ton, but it's still ok if he does it with a lot of hands that will call your push too. Any hands that will fold to your push are a huge bonus.

Had a horrible 12 hour session at Foxwoods today. Not sure if it was my thinking was impaired on a few hands or if it was fine, but I'll allow for you guys to elaborate.

Hand 1: I have 650 behind me, villain has 350. First hand he has played at table and I have no reads on him.

PF: I raise UTG+1 to 20 w/ AK, 3 callers.
Flop action is A K 9

UTG makes it 30. I raise to 120. Villain from CO makes it 280 in less than 10 seconds of thought. Someone mucks KJo and it accidentally flips over (so I know one of Kings are out).

I figure he is either doing this with a flush draw or he has a set of 9s. I discount the flush draw heavily because I dont think normally people raise out after a big bet is placed that quickly with a flush draw.

Are you getting it in every time in a readless situation against unknown villain?

meh if he has 99 its just a cooler you cant just fold top two on this board to an unknown like.. ever, esp since he only has 72 BB's.. 2-5 amirite?

Hand 2:

Villain and myself have a long drawn out history from previous encounters. He is a loud greek man who calls me dead money in a hand earlier when I hit a gutshot getting 10:1 in a huge pot (due to him misplaying a set horribly). I announce to the table "Do you see that man sitting across the table from me? He is the reason I am sitting at this table right now". He is a thinking player (beyond level 1 thinking) who uses position and is very aggressive in every hand he is involved in.



Yeah, we go to war often. I have 450 behind me, Greek man has 600. PF I have KT It is limped 3 ways, I call from MP. He raises to 12 from the button (which he does like 9 out of 10 times). 3 callers.

Flop: AK8
Its checked around to villain. He makes it 20. Its folded to me and I call. I flat call because he will c-bet every time here and its a good possibility I am ahead.

Turn:AK84
I check again, he leads for 35. I think and call without much difficulty.

River: AK849
I check and he leads out for 85. I have seen him triple barrel before against some people who he thinks are capable of folding middle pair. Theres obviously a chance he played Ax and Im a station, but its close. Snap call or muck here?

nah its 1/2. I lost like 800 for the session. I think towards the end when I was playing with this ex-celtics player I started to play my lag game (crazier and more erratic). I should have left when I won back my first 3 buyins but the table was so juicy....

That is the total rake from the tables you played, paid by all players.

If that's true it isn't accurate.

In game notes you can hit get all and see your MGR.

My MGR for today is $500 on the front tab it says total rake was 360.

I see there was some discussion about Karps AJs hand so I'll chime in and then go back and read the discussion.

AJs preflop against this type of player is tricky. I'll mix it up between 3betting and just calling. Both are fine imo. It depends on a few things, especially the flop of the game. If I've been getting the best of him I'd be more inclined to 3-bet him because he will play even worse than normal against me. However, if he's been hitting like a god (like these guys always seem to do) I'm more likely to not 3-bet.

The thing about a player like this is, when you 3-bet it is strictly for value. This type of player will call most 3-bets, so you will be playing a big pot with a hand that rates to be the best. This some what negates the problem of position because you are really only going to be playing this hand on the flop in most cases.

As played, I don't really like c/r here. These guys seem to call c/r very light, and with the stack to pot ratio here, a c/r is just awkward. Against this guy I want to be able to c/shove and that's a little over kill here and kinda reps exactly what you have. So, I'd b/3-bet shove! If your bet just gets called, you have a more manageable pot on the turn, and some fold equity to re-evaluate with.

Edit: Meant to say more how I approach the flop when 3-betting this hand. I'm c/shoving a tonne of flops. Like any flop I have two overs to, especially if I have a back door flush draw or something.

Edit2: Meh, the turn.... It sucks no doubt. Doesn't change anything. I say flip a coin between c/f and shoving...helpful?

Karp, AT hand:

I really like how you played it. The river is a c/f or b/f situation. I thinking c/c would be terrible here. Anything you beat on the river that he could call two barrels with will very rarely bet the river when checked to.

So, would I c/f or b/f? Well, this board got so damn ugly, and this guy is passive enough, I think we can feel good about checking and folding because I don't think his bluff frequency is very high with this board and the way the hand played.

Diamond AK hand, <100bbs in a big pot, you have the nutz! You have the Ad kinda sucks and kinda doesn't!

Ad takes some of his big draws away, like Adxd. However, he still could have QdJd, JdTd, A9, K9, AQ (but live players would often play this passive).

Having the Ad means you have even more outs to a set of 9s. You have like 16-20% equity even against a set of nines I do believe.

Edit: It's also very important to note that UTG donks small 'to see where he's at'. <3 these guys.

edit: I too assumed it was 2/5. Is your standard open at 1/2 10bbs?

Diamond, KT hand. You are kinda asking us to give our opinion on a hand that you got to the river to because of your read. So, only you know if you can call here.

I'd think he has to put you on a weak A or what you have, so the question is: does he think you'll fold a weak A?

In the future, the way to battle a habitual button raiser is to not limp.call them. I love when people battle my position raises this way. You should instead limp/3-bet him. Preferably when you get to open limp, because it's much more convincing. I thinking player will not believe you over limped a big hand. (which means if he's thinking, you might want to overlimp a big hand when he has button!).

I had fun with this in vegas. I sat at one 2/5 table and this one guy raised the button the first 3 or 4 orbits I sat. So, i decided to limp/re-raise ATC the next couple orbits if I got to open the pot.

I also pulled a nice yeti on him when he c/r a paired flop, and I 3-bet air I liked that guy. Ah...vegas...

lol! it can be fun to play meta games for sure

Hand 1: Standard open at Foxwoods is 6x-7x usually. This table is different. UTG limped and is a huge station (never folds pf). Also, table was incredibly laggy due to my image at the moment, so I decided if I'm going to raise it in EP and lots of callers, I might as well make it an above average raise.

Hand 2: I believe he put me on an Ax or Kx hand, and was repping a strong ace. Its hard for you guys to say whether to call or not because you would have to know more of the personal history between us, and more on what happened at table last night (true).

I think he is capable of 3 barrel bluffing, and I definetly put him on tilt earlier bc he kept talking smack to me throughout the night. I should have looked him up on the river since I called on both previous streets (with the knowledge he has TP or nothing usually), but didnt anticipate an $85 bet on river if he was bluffing. He showed me 86o lol

diamond the ak vs 99 hand is a standard cooler and it's wrong to think you misplayed it somehow.

the 2nd hand given your read and history with the guy is a good spot to make a calldown imo.

also i'm not sure how i feel about announcing to the whole table that guy x is a big donkey or trying to put him on tilt, but i don't have any live nl experience yet -- just online

well i only did that is because he announced that I am "Dead Money" to the entire table

so I do it in a joking manner (but im pretty sure he knows im serious). I dont talk trash to anyone unless they say something bad about me. But its totally standard and this is the only person I talk trash to, because he is a douche to me every time we play. BUT it is a good way to get future action in hands where you are heads up!

diamond lie,

i was thinking about that KT hand last night and i decided if hes betting 3 streets his range is pretty polarized, so i'd call on the end. if he was a player who could take you to valuetown with a single pair of aces id fold but it seems like he'd slow down with a one pair Ax hand cuz he'd want a showdown.