Devin said he thought those were likely holdings on the turn, but hands he'd not bet the river with.
Just curious.

Edit: also, IDK anything about cash really but is it really that unlikely for a player in NL25/NL50 with those stats to slow-play a set / two pair / etc?

I think alot of randoms can show up with all sorts of hands on that turn, any pair, weak 2 pairs, sometimes sets, and pair + draw hands like 45/56.

In this instance though, given villain was the opening raiser and he's 19/16 this flop and turn is less likely to have hit his range with the exception of SC's, low PP's and 2 high diamonds by the turn. He's probably intelligent enough to not call the turn with gutshots, and will probably bet the flop with OESD's and 2 pair (56s/T9s/78s), sets, and overpairs.

Given his line and his stats his most likely holding given his flop action is two high unpaired cards and the turn flat certainly looks like those two high cards are diamonds.

I'm not a fan of donking oop on the flop, so given the checks behind i'd bet larger on the turn and either c/f or c/c the river. C/Fing should be best but I'm not sure I could do it everytime.

It's unlikely that this particular player would slow play made hands like that. We don't have a ton of history, but over the ~350 hands we've played, he's been very straightforward, betting made hands and c/f when he misses without fail. So with him checking the flop, and flatting the turn, I think those holdings are very unlikely.

Thanks for the input on the hands guys.

Cash is a whole lot different than sngs and i don't feel comfortable at all on a CG table. Alot of "i have no clue whats best/good here"-situations arise, eventhough the they seem to be pretty common/easy/standard.

BTW what do you guys think of Ryan "fees" Fee's 6max guide? Is it a good guideline to start out with cash? I did stick to his opening range for a session or two and felt like a total nit folding A5o otb and such.

I haven't read fees' guide. I thought you needed to pay for it. I gave it a glance then and it looks good. AXo (small x) on the button is a really overrated hand. If an ace flops and they don't have one you can take them off the hand whether you have one or not, so it's kind of a wasted card. I would rather have T9o than A5o. I'll give the guide a proper read tomorrow and report back.

btw, in adjusting to cash from SNGs, there are two big mental adjustments to make I think:

- Adjusting to a stack-centric mindset rather than pot-centric. Unless the pot is really big, rather than thinking "how can I win this pot?", you should be thinking "how can I maximise any more money that goes in while ahead, and minimise it while behind?"
- Adjusting to an opponent-centric mindset rather than math-centric. In the AK hand example you gave, no doubt there's a correct answer for a completely unknown player, but it's going to have a huge amount of uncertainty associated with it. Knowing the opponent in situations like that is all-important and is what will elevate you from a breakeven player or small winner to a big winner.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $18.92
UTG: $33.36
UTG+1: $12.20
MP1: $9.66
MP2: $7.30
Hero (CO): $30.43
BTN: $30.28
SB: $30.39

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A K
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.35) 4 K T (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.75, Hero raises to $3, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $6, Hero raises to $29.43 all in, UTG+1 calls $5.20 all in

Line seem ok? Limper was 40/26 and raiser and real villain was 55/28 over 30 hands. Do I get called here by many worse Ks and PPs? Should I flat the flop and plan to get it in on the turn?

Very next hand, same villain --


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $17.67
SB: $32.11
BB: $25.61
UTG: $9.66
UTG+1: $7.30
Hero (MP1): $18.23
MP2: $30.28
CO: $30.29

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP1 with A A
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) 5 2 A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.60) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75

River: ($3.10) A (2 players)
BB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, BB calls $2

Wondering where I could have extracted value at any point. I feel like I could have gotten more out of him, but obviously there's not too much he can have that he's calling me much more with, right?

jurasstoil, thanks for the link to fee's guide. never seen it b4, but just scanned it and it looks good.

movieman, AK hand i'm 3betting and trying to get it in pf. i play the flop the same as you did. AA hand, this seems like the type of player you can get 3 streets of value from, so i just bet, bet, bet.

I may have put those hands in as hands he could have other than a fd, but I agree with blackize that he rarely has a set with his turn play.

No offense to anyone but I replied to this asking if it's really true that IF he had any sets on the river that he would not bet any of those hands when you check to him on the river
And I then got replies 3 times from people saying that he likely won't have those hands which has nothing to do with my question of if; he has them - which the post I'm quoting implies is possible - will he really not bet them if hero checks back?

He will bet them, but they're such an insignificant part of his range it's not really worth considering.

Jurasstoil, I've just gone through fees guide at some length, and agree it's pretty good. I think it needs a word of caution at <50nl though. His recommended hand ranges can get you into much more trouble at the lower levels, where you should be generally playing tighter ranges and bluffing less. There are so many fish limping, and so many multiway limped pots, that bluffing is less effective because they won't fold one pair hands, and value betting and getting the max for your sets+ is a much bigger contributor to your win rate.

I read fees' guide. It's pretty good. I thought he was overly harsh on checking a good top pair on the turn OOP. One example he gave was AK, you raise and get called, flop AJ5r, you bet and are called, turn T. He now wants to bet again, whereas my standard line versus standard players is to check. You're not getting two more streets out of anything you beat, so there's no need to bet so you can bet river for value. The reason I like checking is that you're in serious danger of getting raised off a hand with a lot of outs. If your opponent has AT you have 10 outs but will have to fold if raised. Similarly if he has JT. Even vs AJ you have 5 outs which is a decent amount of equity to be throwing away. Fees doesn't think this matters as much as losing control of the hand, but I don't think this is a problem. Basically if your opponent fires two barrels you're beaten. Not many opponents will turn A6 or whatever into a bluff in this spot, most will read you for AK and figure you're planning to show the hand down.

What Dave says is right imo.

In the AK hand, your villain has only a half stack. You should be extremely happy to get it in vs a guy with numbers like that & a half stack on that board.

In the AA hand, now you are 100 BBs deep vs a maniac and you have the (effective) nuts on the flop. You need to start building the pot right away if you want to stack him. Bet close to pot on the flop. On the turn you need to bet more. Raise more on the river.

Slowplaying with this small of a pot and stacks this deep in this spot is the best way to minimize value. You have a monster. This is not the time to play pot control. If you are worried about blasting him off his weak hand by betting big, you weren't going to get much value out of those hands anyway. You need to maximize your value with this hand when he has something he likes. When you get aggressive with hands like this, you'll be surprised at what some of these people will pay you off with.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $24.49
CO: $4.65
BTN: $5.25
SB: $5.00
BB: $12.56
Hero (UTG): $29.19
UTG+1: $24.25
MP1: $15.63

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with A K
Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.75, 5 folds

Flop: ($1.85) Q 3 A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.85, Hero calls $1.85

Turn: ($5.55) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $13.03 all in, Hero calls $13.03

He was 36/5 over 20 hands. Should I be worried AQ/A9/A3 here enough to fold this on a consistent basis?

For the record, I was planning to CRAI on the turn, but he just got there faster than I did, which is a little more alarming I suppose.

I would call given the way you played it. Why not cbet?

i'd been pretty tight so i wanted him to build the pot himself a bit, but again, he got ahead of myself.

36/5s aren't paying attention to how tight you've been playing. Best way to get the money in against those types is to just keep betting.

what about keep betting and fold to a raise?

Eff stacks 120bb. I raise AA UTG. Fish (47/9) calls in BB. Flop T44r. He donkbets half pot, I 3 bet. He timebanks and types, "I think you have AA, they won't do you any good" and then shoves. I fold. Yes/no?

probably a good fold, hard to say.

I think they have you beat pretty much 100% of the time they chat.

Printed fees' guide and will read through it another two times i think. Its quite good and I think i learned a lot more than in most NL Cash vids i saw, but not sure if its applicable at <=NL50.

Anyone bought the Bobbofitos DVDs from the stars FPP store? Worth it?

I haven't seen it, but most of it is based on his material from his ebook. The video isn't going to be as comprehensive, but based on his ebook the video would be worth it imo.

60 bucks for abridged version compared to 750 for the full version(if he's even still selling it) seems like a pretty decent deal. Though I've really hated his leggo videos.

Brett why do you hate my videos?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...-games-394935/

there are a bunch of reviews there about the DVD