Perfectly standard. He had higher flush, didnt he?

what else...

I'm getting destroyed at NL25. lost 6 stacks in my first 600 hands...

I have to post hands here to remain sane (or at least a bit).

If this helps... I've been running at 7ptbb/100 over a year at NL100 and NL200. This is my current month including ****loads of coolers and RNG ****ing with me. As you can see I'm down almost 20BIs just in flipaments. On other spots I keep running into the top 3% of their ranges.

Hang in there. It'll get better. (I'm saying this to myself, too)

Hey both of you, I feel you a lot, I lost ~15 stacks at nl100 in the last two weeks on different sites(haven't played much, 15 stacks is by far the biggest downer I ever had in cashaments).
I gradually increased tilting I guess, it's just so ****ing frustrating to encounter the phenomenon Karp just mentioned, to run into top 3% in 90%.
Gotta take some days off and probly grind some donkaments or sth to get into biz again, feels like the only thing I can do these days is lose.

What the...

If you run at 7 ptbb/100 why on earth don't you move up?

A new Mercedes, a 2007 Kawasaki motorcycle, a wedding (my own), and 3 overseas vacations kinda destoyd my roll lol. /brag

And because I've worked in "real" jobs my whole life I'm hionestly afraid of the higher stakes.

Chris,

Why do you consider it ridiculous to play 4 tables when learning? I can't recall any serious in-game learning while playing 6+ tables.

Playing 4 tables to learn is fine to learn to play NL, but K䲰䮥n knows how to play, he's just polishing his game. That can be better achieved imo by playing more hands and reviewing after the session any that gave trouble. In-game learning is only useful if you're learning something from most hands, rather than 95% of hands being standard.

The problem is that the 95% of standard hands are more important than the 5% of non-standard hands. Because if you are miss playing hands that you think are standard, you have a huge leak. Often, when you review hands later, these spots are harder to find b/c if you are playing a lot of tables you will have a lot of hands you simply won't review because they are small and seemingly insignificant pots.

Also, in cash games, flow and reads are important. This isn't something PT can track for you for later review. Having the time to analyze your play real time is invaluable imo.

Standard. This was my yesterday:

Speaking of standard spots...This seems to be happening *way* more than I remember just 6 months ago. I'm talking about gigantic overshoves.

Here villain wasn't noteworthy other than being 25/10/1.2

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $153.50
BTN: $93.80
SB: $99.90
Hero (BB): $173.15

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with K K
1 fold, BTN calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, BTN calls $5

Flop: ($12.50) Q 8 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BTN raises to $87.80 all in, Hero...

Or if flop had been

Flop: ($12.50) Q 8 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BTN raises to $87.80 all in, Hero...

Or if villain was a seemingly good regular?
Or is there any combination of variables that would make this an easy fold?

Sometimes I just don't have ****ing clue.

30 hands with villain 27/20/2.0

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $99.50
SB: $172.85
BB: $112.85
UTG: $106.50
MP: $100.00
Hero (CO): $169.20

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with 8 8
1 fold, MP raises to $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($8.50) 8 T J (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $8, MP calls $8

Turn: ($24.50) K (2 players)
MP bets $1, Hero... Do I just treat it like a check and raise/call, I can't possibly fold here can I?

edit: of course by fold i mean if he shoves.

If 95% of hands (or any significant %) are "standard" you're grinding, not improving. If you're playing 4 tables you obviously shouldnt be doing things because they are standard, in fact some of the most valuable things Ive learned when playing less tables to try and improve are spots where I think through a standard spot and realize there are better options than what is standard. A lot of things that are standard are bad, and anything you do to force yourself to think critically about what's going on in a hand as close to 100% of the time as possible is going to be worth way more than 2-4 more tables right now IMO.

I would raise or fold pf, but prob fold... he is raising utg, which he does not do often... plating this hand will likely only get you into big trouble... imo

as played, flop-turn seem fine. Why not check/call river? Do you think he is calling a river bet w/o the flush?

So are you and Devin advocating playing 1, maybe 2 tables while learning cash?

Not really, Just that everyone who is interested in getting better would benefit greatly from playing at least one session every couple weeks on 4 or less tables and verbally explaining to themselves the purpose behind each of their action

... or explain their thought process and record it for their coach to get constructive feedback from their coach...

I need to do this... hopefully Sunday

It's also different for everyone. Some people can seemingly handle more tables, I've never played more than 6 in either sngs or cash. I currently play 6 in cash, so I could probably play more than that in sngs now.

So, for me, if I really wanted to concentrate on every hand, something less than 6 would be optimal. Maybe some can do it with 6. I can't imagine people playing more are truly putting enough thought into ranges for individual opponents enough to say they are really learning and improving on playing optimal against given ranges.

1 or 2 probably isn't optimal either. You just have too much free time where you are not involved in hand. Although, you could be just observing your opponents and how they play against each other during that time.

As for what Nate says, I've been thinking about making some videos. Not really for the purpose of anyone looking at them except for myself. But, it will definitely help me to verbalize and think every decision through.

It's a bit different playing on ipoker as well, because thinking time is very limited (10 seconds I think?) and there's no timebank, so I'm on a clock no matter how many tables I'm playing. There's plusses and minuses. Sometimes I'm rushed and make a bad decision, but so does everyone else.

literally, never fold any 2 here imo (bc you'll look like the biggest bitch ever)

treat this like a check and raise it up

FWIW I'm by no means a good player but good news is that there are plenty that are worse than me. I datamine almost 24/7 and table select like a maniac. If I feel that I'm getting owned I instantly leave that table instead of starting a 3bet war or whatever.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $25
Hero (SB): $25
BB: $24.65
UTG: $72.35
MP: $31.60
CO: $25

Pre-Flop: J T dealt to Hero (SB)
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) J 8 7 (2 Players)
Hero bets $1, BB raises to $2.50, Hero ???

I have like 5 hands on him and he was 0/0, but that obv doesn't mean a whole lot, so lets say he is unknown.

Whats my line? 3bet/fold? call/reev?

I call and re-evaluate the turn. On blanc turn I prolly check-call unless villain's bet is ridiculously big.

Yes, No?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $13.90
CO: $24.85
Hero (BTN): $24.90
SB: $11.50
BB: $26.35

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 9 T
UTG calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, BB raises to $4, 1 fold, CO calls $3.75, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($12.35) K 5 J (3 players)
BB bets $6, CO raises to $20.85 all in, Hero calls $20.85, BB raises to $22.35 all in, Hero calls $0.05 all in

UTG is obv donk, BB is semi decent, I figure he has AK, KK, JJ, AA and I still call.

Eff stacks 400

** Dealing cards to Hero: 2h, Qd
JerryLee78 folded
dave777_ folded
SIGH_DUCK folded
Hero raised to 12.00 blinds haven't been 3 betting much
smitty250 called - 12.00
Carlito83 called - 12.00

** Dealing the flop: Qs, Qc, As
smitty250 checked
Carlito83 bet - 12.00
Hero raised to 36.00
smitty250 called - 36.00 !!!
Carlito83 folded

** Dealing the turn: 8c
smitty250 checked
Hero bet - 90.00 for value vs Aces and for protection/value vs many many draws.
smitty250 raised to 390.00 very quickly
Hero calls all in for 250.00?

Few reads. Very little played together. Hasn't done anything stupid.
Thought his range would be a better Q or AK. Maybe, rarely a draw, but very rarely imo, but I'm not sure about that.