Why are we calling his 3bet here?

In the KQss hand folding is out of the question. Fulls are very unlikely. BB's bet does not suggest he has a 7 and even if he does we still have a reasonable draw against it. Against all other hands we have a monstrous draw and position.

Raising is better than folding, but has some problems. The main thing is that we might get reraised, which we either have to call and get valuetowned, or fold and lay down a perfectly good flush draw against A7 or, worse still, lay our hand down to JTss.

With the KQ threebet preflop hand, I'd probably fold just because villain is unknown and I don't particularly want to play a threebet pot OOP vs him. However raising a widish range from the SB (stuff like A4s, JTo etc) and then folding everything except AQ+, 88+ to threebets is incredibly exploitable. As play gets more aggressive, KQ is a fine hand in this spot and there are certainly regulars I'd call this vs without hesitation.

Don't play much cash but I just came across this post on the software forum and thought you guys might be interested. Pretty sweet FREE table selection website. They are constantly adding updates/new sites, no PokerStars yet though. (Guests get 5 free searches/day, just get unlimited by registering for free)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ad.php?t=86521
TableRatings.com

***** Hand History for Game 1140073752 *****
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 29, 02:18:14 ET 2008
Table Bay Street (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: wheresizzy ( $98.50 USD )
Seat 3: DonnaKaran ( $67.68 USD )
Seat 5: Allerwal ( $72.74 USD )
Seat 6: Juno28 ( $103.60 USD )
Seat 8: pkrhollicc ( $27.00 USD )
Seat 10: McFlurre ( $264.47 USD )
pkrhollicc posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
McFlurre posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wheresizzy [ Kd Ks ]
wheresizzy raises [$4.00 USD]
DonnaKaran folds
Allerwal folds
Juno28 folds
pkrhollicc folds
McFlurre calls [$3.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 5s, 6c ]
McFlurre checks
wheresizzy bets [$8.50 USD]
McFlurre raises [$22.00 USD]
wheresizzy raises [$86.00 USD]
McFlurre calls [$72.50 USD]


Is this standard? Villain is 21/17 and street by street 2/2/4

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (UTG): $98.50
MP: $67.68
CO: $72.74
BTN: $103.60
SB: $27.00
BB: $264.47

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, BB calls $3

Flop: ($8.50) 9 5 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8.50, BB raises to $22, Hero raises to $94.50, BB calls $72.50

this seems fine to me. he should be doing this with a lot of draws and weaker made hands. i might call the c/r sometimes since his draws have a lot of equity vs. you.

hey how did you manage to convert that?

at the bottom of thread click "go advanced" then click to expand handhistory converter at the top. paste your hand then click "convert hand"

fold to cbet %? raise cbet %? Aginst a lot of people this can be a fold, but without a good idea of what his range for c/r this flop is I think stacking off and making a note is OK, and I agree that you can call the raise sometimes, but not when it's this small IMO.

Do you mind elaborating on this a bit...?

I think that the % of his stack villain has committed to the pot is going to have a direct influence on how often he shoves the turn with missed draws. People who pop the flop to like $30+ are much more likely to follow through on the turn when they have a PSB than people who leave themselvs 1.5X pot. Obviously if their range on the flop is so strong that you want to see a safe turn before getting it in, it's disastrous if you are only getting it in on the turn vs made hands and never vs a draw.

Thank you

Dropped nice 10BIs today so I want to make sure I didnt spew too much along the coolers. Also in these spots I find it hard to reason a move to be 100% correct (which is no surprise to me).



Hand #1 BB is 68/0 over 25 hands or so. Has shown some post flop aggression. CO is TAG with 87% fold to 3bet. Should I be calling this river? Flushes didnt get there, straight draws did. Also, how's my betting on turn? Too thin for value or OK against a 60VPIP'er?


Hero (SB): $99
BB: $134.75
UTG: $97
CO: $101.50
BTN: $91

Pre-Flop: K T dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, CO raises to $2, BTN folds, Hero raises to $8.50, BB calls $7.50, CO folds

Flop: ($19) 4 T 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $13.50, BB calls $13.50

Turn: ($46) J (2 Players)
Hero bets $30, BB calls $30

River: ($106) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets $82.75 and is All-In, Hero?


Hamd #2

Here villain seems like a typical TAG. I only have 100 datamined hands on him. No mentionable history. What is your plan on the flop? As played is anyone calling the river bet? (for some reason the underline is stuck, 2p2 bug)

BB: $89
UTG: $24.60
MP: $100
CO: $118.05
BTN: $141.40
Hero (SB): $97.50

Pre-Flop: J J dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, MP raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $11.50, BB folds, MP calls $8.50

Flop: ($24) 7 9 Q (2 Players)
Hero bets $17, MP calls $17

Turn: ($58) 8 (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP checks

River: ($58) 2 (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP bets $34, Hero?


Hand #3

Villain is a typical TAG. We've had some 3betting back and forth. I took my line because of the deeper stacks. Is this cool or a big spew?


SB: $142.82
Hero (BB): $141.78
UTG: $140.90
CO: $93.50
BTN: $81.93

Pre-Flop: 5 6 dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG raises to $4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $14, UTG calls $10

Flop: ($28.50) 8 7 6 (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $22, Hero calls $22

Turn: ($72.50) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $50, Hero raises to $105.78 and is All-In, UTG calls $54.90 and is All-In


Hand #4

Villain is 51/8 and post flop aggression is like 10. River aggression is inf. HAnds ~50. I figured to make some thin value bets. Is this cool?


MP: $118.35
Hero (CO): $98.50
BTN: $312.65
SB: $112.99
BB: $100
UTG: $172.70

Pre-Flop: Q 9 dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, BTN folds, SB calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($9) T J Q (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.50, SB calls $8.50

Turn: ($26) 7 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $21.50, SB calls $21.50

River: ($69) 2 (2 Players)
SB bets $34.50, Hero calls $34.50

standard




I'm not a fan of the preflop play. I think a fold is pretty standard and I've been playing very aggressively preflop lately. On the flop you need to cbet more for value. You have TP2K against a player with a wide range that's likely going to be calling wide too. Sometimes I might check the turn and let him bet but once the turn goes c/c I can't fold the river in this spot.

Quote:

Hamd #2

[quote]define typical tag. Against some tags I'm flatting preflop, especially if BB is bad. If we're talking like 19/16 that's positionally aware then his range for calling the 3bet will typically be QQ-88, AQ, and sometimes KK+/AK/KQs. This river looks like pure value so I fold.

Quote:

Hand #3

Villain is a typical TAG. We've had some 3betting back and forth. I took my line because of the deeper stacks. Is this cool or a big spew?


SB: $142.82
Hero (BB): $141.78
UTG: $140.90
CO: $93.50
BTN: $81.93

Pre-Flop: 5 6 dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG raises to $4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $14, UTG calls $10

Flop: ($28.50) 8 7 6 (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $22, Hero calls $22

Turn: ($72.50) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $50, Hero raises to $105.78 and is All-In, UTG calls $54.90 and is All-In

Why are we 3betting this hand deep against an UTG raise? Given the dynamic you're going to be playing a lot of RR pots OOP in this spot. Can't really say anything about the postflop play though since I never put myself in these spots.

Quote:

Hand #4

Villain is 51/8 and post flop aggression is like 10. River aggression is inf. HAnds ~50. I figured to make some thin value bets. Is this cool?



MP: $118.35
Hero (CO): $98.50
BTN: $312.65
SB: $112.99
BB: $100
UTG: $172.70

Pre-Flop: Q 9 dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, BTN folds, SB calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($9) T J Q (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.50, SB calls $8.50

Turn: ($26) 7 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $21.50, SB calls $21.50

River: ($69) 2 (2 Players)
SB bets $34.50, Hero calls $34.50

flop ok turn, turn I check. Equity-wise this is just a really crap board to be building a big pot. I would plan on calling a river lead after checking the turn.

Table dynamics, Hero's image, Villain's wide range of raising but very tight range of calling 3bets / 4betting. Those reasons are enough for me. In these hands I dont think we should be discussing of 3bets since the drummer is on the table, not here.



I said he seems like a typical TAG after 100 hands. I was referring to his stats which are like 19/17/3. Sample size is too small for other stats to really make any good.

You would flat here with JJ? And whish for BB to chime in? I'm rather 3betting for value or just to get the monies PF than playing JJ OOP against 2 villains and not having the aggression initiative.


Again, table dynamis, heros image, history etc. This is obv not my standard move inb this spot but this time the time felt right.

Please, more discussion on post flop. These are not STTs.

This seems right. I guess I've been looking for value too thinly lately (or in wrong spots).

Thanks for taking the time and effort.

KT hand shove the river every single time

Since I have misunderstood so many things over the past (using these advices in the wrongs spots) could you elaborate on the reasons one should do this?

Guess this needs a bumb...

Guys, i have a hypothetical question:

Full Tilt $2.00/$4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

UTG: $400.00
MP: $400.00
CO: $400.00
BTN: $400.00
Hero (SB): $400.00
BB: $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with 6 7
4 folds, Hero raises to 12$, BB instapotraises to 36$, Hero calls 24$

BB is unknown, no stats running, no specific read.

Is it possible to turn a profit with 67s oop in a reraised pot?
1. Pretend you are Hero
2. Pretend Hero is a winning MTT&STT player and has about 3k hands logged at 2/4 and thats his entire cash experience.

Without any history (and usually even with history) I would just muck it to the 3-bet.



For me, no.

I'm pretty certain that the answer is no.

100bbs deep even vs a small 3bet the answer is generally no barring a rock solid read on the guy. Probably at 150bbs you can start to consider it depending on villain's general image. Given condition 2 though Im thinking you should just toss it because even for a very experienced player the profit from calling in the right spots is high risk/low reward.

Karp- In the KT hand he is going to have a worse T or a mid PP way more often than a busted draw, and he is way more likely to make a horrible call than he is to make a horrible bluff.

Thanks guys, thats what I thought.

btw,
is it possible to beat 2/4 NL @ FTP with a 32/27/3 style (w/o using HUD or Table selection)?
(Having 3-4k Hands cashgame experience overall)

Of course, you can table select without having HUD. As well, you can beat it without HUD, as long as you don't get crazy with tables.

No one can really answer that question definitively but I think that style is probably not optimal for anyone, much less someone that doesn't have a ton of experience. Tighten up some while you learn, and if you do play 32 VPIP I think you are probably going to do better with a PFR in the 20-25 range than 27.

A friend of mine plays 32/27/3 at 2/4 without HUD and he doesn't tableselect. Told him that it won't be a winning style, especially for a beginner in cash. He is a winning MTT/STT (100s+) player, but hasn't played cash seriously (~4k hands).
Ofc he does not want to get any advices from me, cause i'm not playing nearly as high as he does...