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STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

08-01-2008 , 07:52 AM
Argh obv its not AK im an ass who cant read HHs.

Last edited by K䲰䮥n; 08-01-2008 at 08:01 AM.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-01-2008 , 12:15 PM
Devin, my thoughts pretty much exactly. If I do bet the turn I have to continue on the river and fold out 88-66 which I think is the majority of his range. He's also probably capable of folding T9/98/97 but it's not something I'm counting on. Also, something I forgot to include was that he sorta thought a little before calling the flop/turn which leads me to believe his range is weighted almost entirely to medium PPs or TPNK.

However the only problem with raising less on the turn is that a good hand reader is going to be able to see through my bet size because I wouldn't bet so small on a double suited board with a set or overpair ever (although I don't give villain credit for knowing this). The only value hands I'd want to bet small are 65hh and 65ss only.

Karp, sometimes I'll make it 16 or 17. Its something I'm still playing with. Also, I wouldn't continue on the turn and def wouldn't bet the river if I thought he wasn't capable of folding PPs
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-01-2008 , 12:19 PM
In the AQ hand. Are you guys more or less likely to call if he snap shoves/takes a second/tanks?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 01:02 PM
Villain is 33/19/6 but its only a 27 hand sample. No prior significant reads or history.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $120.90
BTN: $98.50
SB: $98.35
BB: $224.40
UTG: $147.50
MP: $55.40

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 2 2
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) 2 8 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN raises to $18, Hero calls $13

Turn: ($43.50) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $28, Hero raises to $99.90 all in
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
In the AQ hand. Are you guys more or less likely to call if he snap shoves/takes a second/tanks?
more likely. Usually they'll think of slow playing a better hand than your AQ here.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
Villain is 33/19/6 but its only a 27 hand sample. No prior significant reads or history.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $120.90
BTN: $98.50
SB: $98.35
BB: $224.40
UTG: $147.50
MP: $55.40

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 2 2
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) 2 8 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN raises to $18, Hero calls $13

Turn: ($43.50) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $28, Hero raises to $99.90 all in
Seems fine. However, with a lot of most peoples range they'll be taking a free card on this board. But, this guy must bet or raise everything to have played that many hands already with that high of an AF.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 03:30 PM
Villain is 19/17 agg fac. 2/1/2. Hero has won all showdown pots on this table (about 30 hands played).

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $108.50
MP: $88.50
CO: $114.50
BTN: $56.95
SB: $99.00
Hero (BB): $104.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A 3
4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.00) J A 6 (2 players)
SB bets $4.00, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($14.00) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, SB raises to $38, Hero?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
Seems fine. However, with a lot of most peoples range they'll be taking a free card on this board. But, this guy must bet or raise everything to have played that many hands already with that high of an AF.
I got berated recently for proposing a check raise in these spots as a good play: FD rightly said that giving villain a free card was terrible play. After much reflection, I think he's right. In this case, the villain's AF is not reliable enough to give you the confidence he will bet turn, so I think you have to lead turn for PSB IMO.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n
Villain is 19/17 agg fac. 2/1/2. Hero has won all showdown pots on this table (about 30 hands played).

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $108.50
MP: $88.50
CO: $114.50
BTN: $56.95
SB: $99.00
Hero (BB): $104.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A 3
4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.00) J A 6 (2 players)
SB bets $4.00, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($14.00) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, SB raises to $38, Hero?
I'd tell myself that there is no reason for him to expect me to bet as I obv have something with showdown value cause there aren't many draws, and really want to call. But, then I'd tell myself meh, he's rarely bluffing here at 100nl especially when it's so likely I have an Arag and I'd fold.

All that said, I fold A3o pre to a raise even ip.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n
Villain is 19/17 agg fac. 2/1/2. Hero has won all showdown pots on this table (about 30 hands played).

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $108.50
MP: $88.50
CO: $114.50
BTN: $56.95
SB: $99.00
Hero (BB): $104.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A 3
4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.00) J A 6 (2 players)
SB bets $4.00, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($14.00) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, SB raises to $38, Hero?
I make it $10 preflop since these guys generally have a wide SB opening range. don't really mind folding or calling but i'd probably favor folding>calling if I didn't raise. postflop looks ok now fold.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-02-2008 , 11:15 PM
Villain is 11/6/0/36

oker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $31.80
MP1: $25.95
MP2: $23.95
Hero (CO): $41.75
BTN: $18.50
SB: $34.25
BB: $8.15
UTG: $24.90

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with K K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75

Flop: ($6.35) A 5 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $7, Hero ?
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
All that said, I fold A3o pre to a raise even ip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip
I make it $10 preflop since these guys generally have a wide SB opening range. don't really mind folding or calling but i'd probably favor folding>calling if I didn't raise.
The guy had 88% cbet and over 60% fold-cbet-to-raise. So I was aiming on raise on many boards but then changed my plan after I hit the TP on the flop. Does that sound reasonable? (sample size 3k+, datamined)
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Jeckyl_00
Villain is 11/6/0/36

oker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $31.80
MP1: $25.95
MP2: $23.95
Hero (CO): $41.75
BTN: $18.50
SB: $34.25
BB: $8.15
UTG: $24.90

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with K K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75

Flop: ($6.35) A 5 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $7, Hero ?
Raise more PF since you're deeper than normal. Why are you betting this flop and why so little? There's only little value on betting and almost no draws to protect against. Also your bet sizing is bad. Is he raising your bet because he's strong or because you appear to be weak? Check behind the flop.
STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Jeckyl_00
Villain is 11/6/0/36

oker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $31.80
MP1: $25.95
MP2: $23.95
Hero (CO): $41.75
BTN: $18.50
SB: $34.25
BB: $8.15
UTG: $24.90

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with K K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75

Flop: ($6.35) A 5 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $7, Hero ?
Preflop: Hero is now used to getting dealt KK because we all know he's played enough hands, and therefore doesn't need to raise some amount guaranteeing some action. Therefore, hero doesn't not raise <3x villains' preflop raise....oh wait...that didn't happen.

Flop: So, now that villain has 100% of his opening range, cause that's what we got, we have to fold to his c/r cause wtf is he c/r that we beat?
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n
The guy had 88% cbet and over 60% fold-cbet-to-raise. So I was aiming on raise on many boards but then changed my plan after I hit the TP on the flop. Does that sound reasonable? (sample size 3k+, datamined)
karp, this is perfectly reasonable to use these stats to make some decisions. But remember that in bvb situations frequencies change a lot, and making moves bvb is going to be less +EV b/c people don't believe you bvb.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
Preflop: Hero is now used to getting dealt KK because we all know he's played enough hands, and therefore doesn't need to raise some amount guaranteeing some action. Therefore, hero doesn't not raise <3x villains' preflop raise....oh wait...that didn't happen.

Flop: So, now that villain has 100% of his opening range, cause that's what we got, we have to fold to his c/r cause wtf is he c/r that we beat?
not positive what you're saying re: pf, but I think you're saying I should have raised more, same as Karp?

flop: I guess I should have bet a little more, but def fold to to CR... which I did.

yea, bet sizing was def off here.

Thanks DL and Karp
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n
Villain is 19/17 agg fac. 2/1/2. Hero has won all showdown pots on this table (about 30 hands played).

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $108.50
MP: $88.50
CO: $114.50
BTN: $56.95
SB: $99.00
Hero (BB): $104.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A 3
4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.00) J A 6 (2 players)
SB bets $4.00, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($14.00) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, SB raises to $38, Hero?
I have trouble letting go here. There is a good chance you chop the pot if I big card falls on the river... that thinking would lead me to call and lose to his ace big...
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 10:44 AM
Did I play this correctly in terms of extracting value or keeping pot small... etc

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $8.10
UTG+1: $29.90
UTG+2: $16.35
MP1: $77.25
MP2: $56.95
CO: $48.75
BTN: $49.00
SB: $34.50
Hero (BB): $52.40

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A Q
UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, BTN raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($6.75) T Q 7 (3 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG calls $4, BTN raises to $12.50, Hero calls $8.50, UTG calls $2.10 all in

Turn: ($37.85) J (3 players - 1 is all in)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($37.85) 5 (3 players - 1 is all in)
Hero checks, BTN checks
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 10:58 AM
villain is 11/0/0/19

Is this a stand fold pf?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $25.30
SB: $34.35
BB: $34.25
UTG: $13.45
UTG+1: $35.75
MP1: $22.30
Hero (MP2): $33.85
CO: $25.00

Pre Flop: Hero is MP2 with J A
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, 2 folds
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n
The guy had 88% cbet and over 60% fold-cbet-to-raise. So I was aiming on raise on many boards but then changed my plan after I hit the TP on the flop. Does that sound reasonable? (sample size 3k+, datamined)
He has ~20% PFR so that cuts your sample down to 600 relevant hands. Then he only cbets 88% cutting it down to 528. Then consider that he probably only has his cbets raised 30% of the time and we're now down to 160 relevant hands. I don't think that this is enough of a sample to use as justification for making marginal plays.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:55 PM
Dr. Jeck, yeah it's a standard fold against pretty much any TAG, even more so vs. a 11/0 (although you really can't read a lot into 19 hands).

The AQ hand above - I'd usually 3bet preflop, and if I called pre I'd check/call the flop. From there if the turn goes check/check, I'd usually value bet the river. If the turn goes check/bet I'd usually call again and check the river.

Generally I just don't bet into the preflop raiser much, so maybe there is some merit to your line, idk. But for me, it wouldn't really be consistent with how I play anything in my range and also these donk bets get raised so often that I'd want to call but I'd then know I'd be in a bloated pot out of position with no real idea where I stand because of the frequency these donk bets get raised.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Jeckyl_00
not positive what you're saying re: pf, but I think you're saying I should have raised more, same as Karp?

flop: I guess I should have bet a little more, but def fold to to CR... which I did.

yea, bet sizing was def off here.

Thanks DL and Karp
Yea...I was really drunk. What I'm saying is that your raise looks like a raise hoping to get action because you have KK. This is what donks do because they don't play much and get really excited when they get a big pair.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Jeckyl_00
villain is 11/0/0/19

Is this a stand fold pf?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $25.30
SB: $34.35
BB: $34.25
UTG: $13.45
UTG+1: $35.75
MP1: $22.30
Hero (MP2): $33.85
CO: $25.00

Pre Flop: Hero is MP2 with J A
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, 2 folds
yes.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:08 AM
AQ hand looks fine. You could bet the river sometimes as both a blocking bet and for value.
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote
08-04-2008 , 04:59 AM
What's the best way to play flopped trips IP/OOP. I call/c-bet, and then what when villain fires the second barrel? I normally raise, but I only get called if I'm beat (it seems), should I just call and then put a blocker on the river?

Here's an example, where I also have the FD, and checked flop, but please ignore that additional fact. Villain is 28/11/2 over c 80 hands.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (UTG): $25.00
MP: $22.60
CO: $17.15
BTN: $10.95
SB: $23.15
BB: $25.00

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with K Q
Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) K 2 K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($2.35) T (2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, BTN raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, BTN calls $5.95 all in

River: ($22.25) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $22.25
Hero shows Kc Qc (three of a kind, Kings)
BTN shows Ah Kd (three of a kind, Kings - Ace kicker)
BTN wins $21.15
(Rake: $1.10)
STTF SNG -&gt; Cash Thread #2 Quote

      
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