Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Tournament Poker > STT Strategy

Notices

STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2008, 03:27 AM   #1376
Pooh-Bah
 
K䲰䮥n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,919
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

ty
K䲰䮥n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 03:39 AM   #1377
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 33,449
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

FD, that's good advice, but I'm telling him he should maybe get comfortable calling a big river bet.

It's definitely hard to make that call without really watching the guy. If I've seen him slowplay a big hand then that's it, I'm calling him down here.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 03:41 AM   #1378
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Ditch Digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,964
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n View Post
help me damnit timebank is running out
It's a bad spot but FD hit it pretty well. Also, given the fact that you have QQ with a spade lessens the chance that he's on the QJ sd or a flush draw.
Ditch Digger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 05:24 AM   #1379
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
futuredoc85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 11,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
FD, that's good advice, but I'm telling him he should maybe get comfortable calling a big river bet.

It's definitely hard to make that call without really watching the guy. If I've seen him slowplay a big hand then that's it, I'm calling him down here.
Im a tard b/c a big part of my thought process on this is that we have QQ and not KK (which i would call/call always vs this guy) b/c its much harder for him to have a straight draw, while w/ KK all combos of OESDs are unhindered and we are blocking QJ hardcore.
futuredoc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 05:22 PM   #1380
Pooh-Bah
 
K䲰䮥n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,919
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Two hands.

#1 villain is unknown. Am I missin out on value not betting this river?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) IPoker Game#938300276

SB ($93)
BB ($95)
UTG ($40)
UTG+1 ($102.50)
Hero ($195.45)
BTN ($132.70)

Dealt to Hero QQ

fold, fold, Hero raises to $4, fold, call, fold,

FLOP ($9) 574

check, Hero bets $8, SB calls $8,

TURN ($25) 5747

check, Hero bets $20, SB calls $20,

RIVER ($65) 5747K

check, check






------------





#2 BB is a TAG. A note says "has FPS". Whatever that means. SB is LAG but shows aggression in very small pots only.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) IPoker Game#938215392

SB ($86.60)
BB ($100)
UTG ($301.50)
Hero ($104.55)
CO ($106.65)
BTN ($120.60)

Dealt to Hero QA

fold, Hero raises to $4, fold, fold, call, call,

FLOP ($12) 97Q

check, check, Hero bets $11, SB calls $11, BB calls $11,

TURN ($45) 97QK

check, BB bets $25, Hero?
K䲰䮥n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 08:58 PM   #1381
ARTist
 
cha59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: I like meat.
Posts: 22,327
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Karp - I'm not good enough to value bet that thin in hand 1. I think checking is fine.

Hand 2 I fold. I think you might be a little ahead and he has a bazillion outs, but you could be behind and drawing thin or dead. Also you have the SB still in the hand to be concerned about.
cha59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 09:57 PM   #1382
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 33,449
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Karp (and cha) checking the river seems fine there, but he still calls with 66,88-JJ if you don't bet too big.

Hand 2 - FPS = Finnish Player Syndrome
KQ and JT are both possible. Pretty small bet there for him to be trying to bluff both of you out. There's some chance it's a draw or a blocking bet with QT or something, but like cha said it's mostly way behind or a bit ahead. SB can screw things up for you and whatever SB does, the river is likely to be a bad spot.

All that sounds nice, but it still seems like a hard fold there on the turn in the real world.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 12:11 AM   #1383
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
futuredoc85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 11,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n View Post
Two hands.

#1 villain is unknown. Am I missin out on value not betting this river?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) IPoker Game#938300276

SB ($93)
BB ($95)
UTG ($40)
UTG+1 ($102.50)
Hero ($195.45)
BTN ($132.70)

Dealt to Hero QQ

fold, fold, Hero raises to $4, fold, call, fold,

FLOP ($9) 574

check, Hero bets $8, SB calls $8,

TURN ($25) 5747

check, Hero bets $20, SB calls $20,

RIVER ($65) 5747K

check, check




Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59 View Post
Karp - I'm not good enough to value bet that thin in hand 1. I think checking is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Karp (and cha) checking the river seems fine there, but he still calls with 66,88-JJ if you don't bet too big.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo





NO NO NO NO


futuredoc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 12:15 AM   #1384
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
futuredoc85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 11,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

shove that all day is what Im getting at, what are you afraid he has? KJcc is pretty much all you lose to and there are infinity busted draws for him to put you on when you shove for less than PSB and call w/ his 88/99/TT/etc. and odds are he didnt c/c down w/ KXcc anyway (AK 3bets pre a lot and raises the flop even more, KQ is impossiple, KT and lower its less likely he calls pre and even less likely he c/c down 2 big bets, SHOVE.
futuredoc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 12:18 AM   #1385
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
futuredoc85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 11,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Hand 2 I fold, but if the board was 2 7 Q K

then I would be CRAI instead of folding b/c JT wouldnt be a concern so you lose to KQ and sets (which almost always raise the flop) and he has to call w/ a FD and bad TAGs bet FDs all day here.
futuredoc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 12:36 AM   #1386
banned
 
vm1124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 955
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Dont mean to rain on the party but ive always wondered why this thread exists and why its so popular? Is there a reason you dont like posting in SSNL, or are you guys all just friends and like talking poker to each other?
vm1124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 12:56 AM   #1387
Pooh-Bah
 
xPeru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SNE @ life; home in Peru
Posts: 4,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

1. Your knowledge base is different if you play cash after mastering ICM and the tight passive style of most SNGs where n90% of the action is PF.

2. Some ex-STTFr's have become top notch cash players, and feel they want to keep contributing to the Forum that helped them so much, hence the quality of advice available to us here is very good. VERY GOOD. I have twice read both these threads start to finish- v useful.

3. SSNL is good too and most of us read and post there too, but you're right we're all, if not friends, at least a group of people with a common background in STTs, and I'm sure IRL we'd all get on. More to the point, I trust the advice of people here like FD and Devin, because I have confidence in their poker skills and understanding which derives from my knowledge that they understood STTs. I can't judge the competence of some replies in SSNL - I can here.

4. This thread is a great resource for STTers who switch to cash - let it live on!
xPeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 01:00 AM   #1388
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 69.20.56.132
Posts: 33,449
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

FD, I thought you were saying check and I was thinking that you're worse than me at poker. Now I'm back to thinking you're better.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 01:12 AM   #1389
banned
 
vm1124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 955
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

cool makes sense peru.
vm1124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 01:18 AM   #1390
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
futuredoc85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 11,150
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by vm1124 View Post
Dont mean to rain on the party but ive always wondered why this thread exists and why its so popular? Is there a reason you dont like posting in SSNL, or are you guys all just friends and like talking poker to each other?
there is so much noise in SSNL, like probably 95% of it is noise/awful advice. There are a lot of good players that post there but it's hard to know who to listen to, especially when a lot of people widely considered good posters have no clue. I think it's because for some reason a lot of people have convinced themselves that 1/2 is like super hard post-UIGA or something and think they are super special for beating it. The abundance of massive egos there is really ridiculous.

I also think people feel more comfortable posting spots that may be somewhat standard to a lot of players and would get harsh responses in SSNL/uNL (although >50% of the harsh responses would be nonsense). I do post in MSNL as well and most of my posts here are responses to hands, I also respond to hands in uNL and SSNL on occasion as well.
futuredoc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 02:05 AM   #1391
adept
 
bengiec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: my swag is [x]on [ ]off
Posts: 968
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $754.30
Hero (CO): $433.15
BTN: $363.00
SB: $215.30
BB: $55.70
UTG: $200.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A T
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, BB calls $8, UTG calls $8, 1 fold

Flop: ($33.00) 6 2 T (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $18, BB folds, UTG calls $18

Turn: ($69.00) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($69.00) T (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $28, UTG raises to $100, Hero calls $72


villain is 22/18. this hand is from a few days ago so i don't remember my reads at the time. i never see river c/r's as bluffs or anything like that so i was hesitant to stack off, although there are obv lots of TX's i'm ahead of. im a vaigne.
bengiec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 02:44 AM   #1392
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
blackize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,521
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

What's with the really small river bet?

What the hell is a 22/18 limping UTG?

I think most villains are leading the river with their full houses and trips so I think it's more likely he's turning something like 77 into a bluff.

Given that, I'd shove since I think we can discount stuff that has you beat and you might be able to get him to spaz out and call with 77 or call with JTs or something.
blackize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 03:38 AM   #1393
Pooh-Bah
 
sence25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: havin fun at pokers
Posts: 3,676
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Any T is probably calling and I can't see him checking a set twice, so I'd shove and get folds on a lot in this spot because a huge part of his range seems to be a bluff.
I can't see him having a hand that beats you TBH.
sence25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 06:09 PM   #1394
Pooh-Bah
 
K䲰䮥n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,919
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Is this coolio?

Donk betting villain is a bad LAG who donk-leads 24% of the time. The initial PF raiser whos calling the $12 bet is a TAG with low WTSD%.



SB ($63.30)
BB ($108)
UTG ($164.30)
UTG+1 ($105)
CO ($95.50)
Hero ($191.10)

Dealt to Hero 77

UTG call, fold, CO raises to $4, Hero call, fold, fold, UTG call,

FLOP ($13.50) 564

UTG bets $12, CO calls $12, Hero raises to $61.50 and will call a push even from the deep LAG
K䲰䮥n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 07:53 PM   #1395
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Ditch Digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,964
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize View Post
What's with the really small river bet?

What the hell is a 22/18 limping UTG?

I think most villains are leading the river with their full houses and trips so I think it's more likely he's turning something like 77 into a bluff.

Given that, I'd shove since I think we can discount stuff that has you beat and you might be able to get him to spaz out and call with 77 or call with JTs or something.
I don't think a 22/18 guy is going to turn any hand that he limp/calls utg into a bluff without some history. The turn and river were both really good for 77/88 and he's way more likely to call the river bet with these than turn them into a bluff.

I still call the river raise as we are getting good enough odds but I think shoving is pretty bad. No better hand is folding and I really don't think we are good 60%+ of the time or whatever we need to make a shove good.
Ditch Digger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #1396
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
blackize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,521
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Eh his line really doesn't make sense for value. I think combined with the fact that bengie bet so small on the river this really looks like a "you can't call this" raise and I think he'll spaz out enough to make a shove profitable.
blackize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 11:54 PM   #1397
STTF HUC I Winner
 
lacky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: the working poor
Posts: 7,266
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 10 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8 8
1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, SB calls, 1 fold

Flop: (5 SB) 3 4 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) 7 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls

River: (8.5 BB) 9 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls

Spoiler:



Just thought I'd contribute.
lacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 12:00 AM   #1398
ARTist
 
cha59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: I like meat.
Posts: 22,327
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by lacky View Post
Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 10 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8 8
1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, SB calls, 1 fold

Flop: (5 SB) 3 4 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) 7 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls

River: (8.5 BB) 9 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls

Spoiler:



Just thought I'd contribute.
sick.
cha59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 10:37 AM   #1399
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,450
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

lacky, lol limitaments. standard limit frustration scenario.

FD, on Karps QQ hand, villain has about a PSB left on the river, my question on betting the river is would he call with a worse hand? The only hand that beats us is an overpair which is hugely unlikely or a Kcxc flushdraw that missed the draw but hit the overpair. So villain has $61ish on the river, my instinct would be to bet $45ish into the $65 pot. not sure what I'm saying here.

Beng, I have noooo idea what he has there, but I'd call too. The only reason to limp there would be to induce the shorty in the blinds, but that is overall such a strange line that I have no clue where you are by the river, although the river is a ok bluff card (not great). If he limped to induce then he has AA, KK type of hand. very strange. 100bbs deep I'd shove fyi.
GtrHtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 11:16 AM   #1400
grinder
 
The Lipo Fund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chasing the Green Light
Posts: 13,164
Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

lacky is it standard to not cap that flop?
The Lipo Fund is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online