STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

[MikeMcQ1]

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

i would probably fold. since it's multiway he's more likely to be raising for value more than anything else.

So you are putting him exactly on a set when he does that? I don't see any 2pair hands here, and there's a ton of draws.

[blackize]

If he knows how fishy the other player is it should make him much less likely to raise his draws. But he may just be autopiloting

[DevinLake]

Originally Posted by ger664

Hand 2 Normally I check it back but against this guy its probably better to value shove the river, sucks when u split and stars get extra rake.

rake's already maxed out.

[Hirle]

Originally Posted by blackize

If he knows how fishy the other player is it should make him much less likely to raise his draws. But he may just be autopiloting

Or just plain not-that-good... don't underestimate that, especially not when there are 2 hands that beat you {99, 22}. If possible, I'm getting it in pretty fast on that flop...

[dipstikdave]

Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1

BB seems like a pretty decent LAG at 29/24/6 -- 3bets and squeezes a pretty good amount, I'm certain he's noticed me isolating the fish.

if this is true, then bb is paying attention and will read your lead into 2 players as pretty strong. he's gonna want to keep the fish in the hand and just call with his draws, imo. maybe his value range is pretty wide since you've been isolating a lot, but we don't really know that.

c/r that turn seems pretty bad, tho. bb will likely call another street with his draws, but c/r'ing makes it hard for him(and the fish) to continue putting money in bad. i would bet closer to pot on the flop and ~3/4 pot on the turn.

[MikeMcQ1]

It's been a few days since anyone's been in here so I'll stick a few hands in. Thanks for responding to the previous hands...
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Hand #1

Villain is 42/31/7.0 over 28 hands only.
other player I remember was a 54/3 drooler.

Based purely on his limited stats, I feel I could shove as he could be doing this as a semi-bluff or weaker K especially since he's checked it like he has. But it has to be shove or fold here, correct? How about the bet sizing?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($50)
BB ($26.30)
UTG ($41.25)
UTG+1 ($65.25)
CO ($52)
Hero ($49.75)

Dealt to Hero A K

UTG raises to $1.50, fold, fold, Hero raises to $4.55, fold, BB calls $4.05, UTG calls $3.05

FLOP ($13.90) 2 8 6

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

TURN ($13.90) 2 8 6 K

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $8.80, BB folds, UTG raises to $17.60, Hero...

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[MikeMcQ1]

Hand #2 Much more standard/boring but really want to think about c-betting.

Villain is unknown 24/1/0.4 <30 hands (both blinds were 15/11 type nits)

In this hand my biggest question is about c-betting here.
I know I ****ed up by barreling this turn as it changes nothing, (although 2barrels have been very profitable in a vaccuum).
But then hit my King so a v-bet/fold on the river should be better than c/c or c/f vs an unknown me thinks.
Is everyone always c-betting this flop here?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($50)
BB ($51.50)
Hero ($51.55)
CO ($55.60)
BTN ($58.55)

Dealt to Hero K T

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, BTN calls $1.50, fold, fold

FLOP ($3.75) 9 2 J

Hero bets $2.95, BTN calls $2.95

TURN ($9.65) 9 2 J 6

Hero bets $6.20, BTN calls $6.20

RIVER ($22.05) 9 2 J 6 K

Hero bets $11, BTN raises to $24, Hero folds

BTN wins $42.05

[cha59]

hand 1 - I will defer to someone else because I dont know what is best.

hand 2 - I like c-betting flops with hands/flops like this a lot because you have little chance of winning otherwise, unless you bink your gutter, or possibly a K, or less likely a T. Also, if you do hit the straight, you stand a much better chance of winning a big pot if you cbet the flop. Your hand will be disguised if you hit a non club straight.

I would not typically two barrel an unknown on the turn. I'd only do that vs a known floater who tries to steal checked turns in position, and who I know is capable of folding vs a two barrel. When the unknown calls the flop, I typically give him credit for a better hand or a draw, neither of which will likely fold to the 2nd barrel.

Your reasoning on the river makes sense to me. I'm not sure if the bet/fold is best or not because there are a lot of draws out there that missed on the river that will bluff when checked to. For that reason, and because your hand is not super strong, I would check/call that river as played. I'm not confident thats best, but thats what I'd be most comfortable doing.

[KoreanBuffet]

Hand 1 I'm pretty sure he's going to donk into you with all the hands that are crushing you. I for sure want to tax him here if he does have a heart or if he's feeling frisky with a K so go ahead and get it in imo. Bet sizing on all streets seems fine to me. Yeah the more I look at it the less often I think he has a set or 2p with aggro tard stats like that.

Hand 2 For me its going to be pretty villain dependent. His PF stats imo don't help a ton here I would need to know if he's been flatting you alot IP and how its been going. Given your limited sample I'd go ahead and cbet since you have an overcard and a few clean Q's to the gutter. This is a spot where I'm c b'ing smallish like $2 to save myself some $$$ though. I don't think most 50NL players esp 24/1 guys are paying enough attention to your bet sizing so you can get away with going close to half pot. If a guy has shown a propensity to call or raise IP I'm just c/f'ing. But I suck OOP.

[dipstikdave]

hand 1, you are repping exactly the hand you have and villain is saying he has you beat, so i'm leaning towards folding.

hand 2, i don't like cbetting these boards against a passive opponent with a hand that has (some) showdown value.

[MikeMcQ1]

raiser is 24/24/5.0 44% steal, 25% 3bet, 100% cbet 35 hands.
SB is 53/7/6.0 and BB is 54/6

I would fold this PF always (or 3-bet it vs this type of opener some % of the time) except that both blinds were huge fish. The SB has donked flop and called a raise before--folding on a later street.

My flop raise was for value against the SB, and obv CO too but and I expected him to fold when I raised...not sure if I want to just call there.

As I said, PF is probably neutral to slightly negative, but isn't terrible. Flop is where I have the most trouble.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($21.15)
BB ($73.25)
UTG ($38)
UTG+1 ($50)
CO ($53.55)
Hero ($48.55)

Dealt to Hero Q T

fold, fold, CO raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1

FLOP ($6) 6 Q 9

SB bets $1, BB folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $5, SB calls $4, CO folds

TURN ($17) 6 Q 9 4

SB checks, Hero checks

RIVER ($17) 6 Q 9 4 Q

SB bets $4, Hero calls $4

[KoreanBuffet]

Bet turn and as played raise river?

[ger664]

Milke, im not so sure about flop, but if its for value against SB then you have to bet the turn and river.

[DevinLake]

Originally Posted by ger664

Milke, im not so sure about flop, but if its for value against SB then you have to bet the turn and river.

why...people will call flop raises much wider than a flop raise followed by two more barrels for stacks.

I don't really like the raise that much since you could easily value town your self when there aren't that many draws. I'd just call flop and re-evaluate.

As played, you need to raise the river. Their bet sizing is almost always honest, and I'd raise smallish...like 12-15.

[MikeMcQ1]

On the flop, I kind of thought of this hand as if it had been checked to me and the pot was now $8, so my raise was like a 'bet' of $5 into an $8 pot. (except I have to consider that it really wasn't the first bet into the pot and figure that when called, ranges might be skewed more toward the upper end of the ranges).

When I do get called, I'm pot controlling at that point mainly because I'm trying to avoid value-towning myself. Plus, I'm probably not getting much more than a single street of value when I'm ahead I'd say. Checking the turn might induce a call from those 9x hands.

I thought about raising the river, especially since the turn went check/check. But what is really going to call me, Q8 or some 9x like A9 or 9T or 98? Remember, he led into me on the river...if he had checked I would have bet.