STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 - Page 314 - STT Poker Strategy

xPeru · 08-06-2009, 10:46 AM

Bones, my last point was with tongue firmly in cheek! I was taking the mickey out of my own reputation here! I use the smiley face to indicate when humour is meant - Americans tend to miss my British version ...

xPeru · 08-06-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

This was not your argument in the post I responded to. Your argument was about avoiding regs in marginal spots. I wasn't talking about this hand in particular, just that strategy as a whole.

What hands would you call a UTG raise from a 20/17/7ish reg from the button?

T8s has about the same equity as KQo if villain opens ~10%, but I would much prefer to play this than KQo, for obv reasons. Typically, I wouldn't call with less than: 22-TT, AJ/AQs, and AQo. My 3 bet range is fairly polarised to JJ+, AK, and 98s+ SCs (some of the time if we have a lot of history). I sometimes flat the big pairs too, if his fold to 3 bet is a bit high.

Given what I do, how should I change this so that I play more marginal hands against such villains to improve my winrate?

DevinLake · 08-06-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xPeru

What hands would you call a UTG raise from a 20/17/7ish reg from the button?

T8s has about the same equity as KQo if villain opens ~10%, but I would much prefer to play this than KQo, for obv reasons. Typically, I wouldn't call with less than: 22-TT, AJ/AQs, and AQo. My 3 bet range is fairly polarised to JJ+, AK, and 98s+ SCs (some of the time if we have a lot of history). I sometimes flat the big pairs too, if his fold to 3 bet is a bit high.

Given what I do, how should I change this so that I play more marginal hands against such villains to improve my winrate?

I'm not answer anymore till you go and re-read everything that was written on that hand. Note that you made a point about the reverse implied odds, then made a separate point about avoiding regs in marginal spots...implying that they were separate thoughts. Also note I discussed how I'd play KQo there and it didn't involved calling with it, so stop comparing equities to it and pretending I'm talking about calling with it.

GtrHtr · 08-06-2009, 02:55 PM

Mike, I'd check the river on the TT hand.

Doublez-Down · 08-06-2009, 04:33 PM

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $15.14
UTG: $6.25
UTG+1: $1.40
MP1: $2.67
MP2: $2.09
CO: $7.38
BTN: $9.77
Hero (SB): $8.98

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A

K

UTG raises to $0.20, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.50) 2

7

K

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.10) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($1.10) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

Just checking to see if this passive line sucks or not. He's 13/11 over 87 hands, so I'm trying to not valuetown myself against a tight UTG range in the epitome of a WA/WB situation. But am I missing value by not betting the turn?

gobao · 08-06-2009, 04:38 PM

Lead out river imho,he is c back to much of his range

Doublez-Down · 08-06-2009, 04:58 PM

Agree, but I also think there's only a small portion of his range we beat that can call a river bet.

DevinLake · 08-06-2009, 05:54 PM

I don't think he's bluffing the river much, so the "small portion of his range we beat that can call a river bet" might be larger than the small portion of worse hands that bet for value or bluff.

Doublez-Down · 08-06-2009, 05:55 PM

For example, you're saying he might call a bet with something like TT but won't necessarily make the bet himself?

ger664 · 08-06-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublez-Down

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $15.14
UTG: $6.25
UTG+1: $1.40
MP1: $2.67
MP2: $2.09
CO: $7.38
BTN: $9.77
Hero (SB): $8.98

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A

K

UTG raises to $0.20, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.50) 2

7

K

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.10) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($1.10) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

Just checking to see if this passive line sucks or not. He's 13/11 over 87 hands, so I'm trying to not valuetown myself against a tight UTG range in the epitome of a WA/WB situation. But am I missing value by not betting the turn?

Against a min raise here I would 3-bet this Pre Flop and fold if he 4-bets back.

As played turn is WA/WB, but you are WA more often then you are behind so I value bet this, He will surely call one street with mid PP and KQ/AK

The river as played I'm not sure?? Should we make a thin value bet and hope he calls with hands you are ahead of. I would hate too see him check back JJ-88 on the river just as much as see him come over the top of us.

bones · 08-06-2009, 06:41 PM

Why are you guys so hung up on this wa/wb nonsense? Get some damn value from your hands instead of being terrified of occasionally valuecutting yourself.

xPeru · 08-06-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xPeru

I think there are three reasons to fold KQ here:

....

Quote:

Originally Posted by xPeru

4th reason to fold KQo - at 25nl you should be table selecting so that you can play lots of hands against the fish - what is the point of playing a marginal hand against a TAG reg who opens UTG? Exploit him by folding! And get your money from the fish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

I'm not answer anymore till you go and re-read everything that was written on that hand. Note that you made a point about the reverse implied odds, then made a separate point about avoiding regs in marginal spots...implying that they were separate thoughts. Also note I discussed how I'd play KQo there and it didn't involved calling with it, so stop comparing equities to it and pretending I'm talking about calling with it.

Forgive me Devin, but I thought it was clear I was talking about the same hand. I'm not trying to piss you off, I genuinely don't understand what sort of marginal hands I should be playing unless I'm missing something obvious like call with hands which have excellent implied odds such as SCs and small pairs, maybe A5s etc.

I seem to have the knack for expressing myself badly, genuine apologies.

xxdanimalxx · 08-06-2009, 10:38 PM

Doublez, pls bet turn bet river.

vs. someone who doesn't buy in properly I'm just trying to get that in.

If you're beat he'll either reraise turn or ship river.

Edit: Check turn if you think he'll barell away but doubtful given stats/stack/stake/etc.

Peru:

Avoiding regs at 25nl is going to kill your winrate. Most regs are bad anyways (hence, they're at 25nl). For the most part they will play super straight forward preflop and be passive post flop.

cha59 · 08-06-2009, 10:42 PM

The AK I think you missed value by not 3 betting preflop. As played, 3 streets of value is good imo. Bet the river for sure after checking the turn.

Doublez-Down · 08-06-2009, 10:45 PM

Maybe I'm paying too much attention to my HUD stats and the fact that it's just 87 hands, but am I typically wanting to 3bet a 13/11s UTG raise with AK? I just feel like he's usually folding hands I dominate, like AQ/AJ/KQ and only calling with the top part of his raising range. Thinking too much?