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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 01-08-2008, 09:32 PM   #376
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Diamond Lie, I'd fold there, he looks really nutted there, looks like 66/AQ/A6 most of the time, especially because he backraised.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:41 PM   #377
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I'd just call the first time around on that flop. He'll probably slow down with AJ-. If I'm raising here, I probably want to be able to call 3-bet. I certainly want to be willing to shove the turn if called. If these two scenarios aren't the case, I don't really like raising.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:27 PM   #378
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Ok, wanted to see if calling and getting it all in on turn was better, or if anyone was for getting it all in on this flop

Or if most thought it was a fold on flop
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #379
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Jbrochu:

JJ hand I'm with Devin, check shove turn. Potentially giving a free card sucks a little but that's the downside of being OOP. If villain has minraised a draw he is quite likely to bet again on the turn. If he has an 8 or a lower pocket pair, betting here achieves little since you are not getting three streets of value out of his hand. Rather than bet now you can bet the river if he checks turn. My second choice after check/shove turn would be check/call. You have a good but not great hand and extracting value from worse hands is tough, so there's no shame in simply aiming to show your hand down. You sacrifice value but avoid getting stacked.

AQ: Fold. What draw do you think he missed? The bet means what it says.

cha59:

I would call and proceed with caution. Folding is reasonable.

criss:

I would instacall. Those passive guys sometimes play weirdly when the pot gets towards the size of their stack. I wouldn't be surprised to see AT here. If he has a set or 63 good for him, but there is just no way I'm folding getting 2:1 pot odds.

Edit: Hmm. I was still on an old page. You should be able to figure out what hands these comments refer to.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:57 PM   #380
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcQ1 View Post
I'd stack off on this flop to this opponent. I think the range of hands is too great to fold to this opponent. Top pair, pair/draw, even OESD + over might be in there.

edit: closer than I thought acc to Pstove...and actually behind, but does the dead money still make it (a shove) good?

[SIZE=1]Board: 8c Td Jh
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.168% 48.52% 00.64% 76861 1021.50 { KcKd }
Hand 1: 50.832% 50.19% 00.64% 79496 1021.50 { AJs, A9s, KJs+, K9s, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, AJo, A9o, KJo+, K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 97o+ }
[/SIZE]

Mike, I never think of using poker stove like this but I really should.

I played around with villains ranges a bit, added some hands like 88,99,TT,JJ,QQ.

About the worst case I come up with I have 40% equity and best case is 50% equity.

If we assume villain shoved, since I have no FE when I shove, it essentially works out to $138 in the pot costing $46 to call so exactly 3-to-1 odds.

I guess this is a really easy push once I make the flop bet, and I think I have to make that flop bet.

One thing I did notice is I could have raised it just a bit more preflop, maybe
to $18 or even $20, to cut down on opponents implied odds a bit.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:09 AM   #381
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
Mike, I never think of using poker stove like this but I really should.

Jbrochu,

Its great for developing how to assess all possible ranges (and tweaking as appropriate), and figuring out how close your trouble hands really are. You'll notice the more you use it, the easier it will be to help decide in the spots you usually blank
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:13 AM   #382
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Jbrochu:

JJ hand I'm with Devin, check shove turn. Potentially giving a free card sucks a little but that's the downside of being OOP. If villain has minraised a draw he is quite likely to bet again on the turn. If he has an 8 or a lower pocket pair, betting here achieves little since you are not getting three streets of value out of his hand. Rather than bet now you can bet the river if he checks turn. My second choice after check/shove turn would be check/call. You have a good but not great hand and extracting value from worse hands is tough, so there's no shame in simply aiming to show your hand down. You sacrifice value but avoid getting stacked.

I really like the check/shove turn line you and Devin suggest. I ended up check/calling and the flush card came on the river and villain insta shoved. I thought about it for a bit and folded but it sucked because I had half my stack in there.


Quote:
AQ: Fold. What draw do you think he missed? The bet means what it says.
Ok, so in this hand I called because I thought he was full of ****...

Turns out he was full of ****, he had Ace little and I took the pot. However, I knew when I was clicking that call button that it was dirty and the wrong play, but I was on subtle tilt and my finger just ignored the signal from my brain to fold.

I just wanted to confirm I should have folded, and everybody I've talked to has said fold.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:43 AM   #383
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

This one generated some interesting discussion on AIM with a few very good players who had some differing opinions.

Preflop is non-standard for me because of the players left to act - shorty in BB is a wild LAG who has a very good chance of shoving this trying to squeeze preflop, which I really want him to do here. SB is pretty straightforward and isnt likely to make a move without a monster. UTG is ~30/3 in only 30 hands so far.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $115.40
BB: $40.00
UTG: $99.00
MP: $124.00
CO: $101.40
Hero (BTN): $107.10

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K A
UTG raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($8.50) 4 T Q (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($18.50) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $14, Hero raises to $98.60 all in

Comments on any streets welcome.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:53 AM   #384
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Against a 30/3, I think I'm just calling the turn as well. I doubt he's folding that often and your nut outs are well disguised. It'll be hard to put you on a gut shot or runner runner flush draw if they hit.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:17 AM   #385
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Turn is a really easy call, agreed w/ Devin

Anything else just feels wrong since you are only putting in money behind (majority of the time) and he folds much less than he is calling here
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:05 AM   #386
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I like the line of just calling turn also, as I don't think we ever fold out TP or better.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:48 AM   #387
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Cha, if you had more hands against this guy, say 200 or so, and he was still 30/3 I would probably still just call preflop because his UTG raising range has to be extremely narrow. He would be the type of player who limp/calls all his pairs and doesn't raise until maybe JJ or better. I also doubt AQ would be in his UTG raising range.

I'm curious if people think that calling is correct, or would you still raise it preflop anyway, and what would you do with AKo...?
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:02 AM   #388
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
Cha, if you had more hands against this guy, say 200 or so, and he was still 30/3 I would probably still just call preflop because his UTG raising range has to be extremely narrow. He would be the type of player who limp/calls all his pairs and doesn't raise until maybe JJ or better. I also doubt AQ would be in his UTG raising range.

I'm curious if people think that calling is correct, or would you still raise it preflop anyway, and what would you do with AKo...?
Good points, but like you said, it would take a ton of sample to determine he's only raising AK,JJ+ there. AK plays fairly easy post flop but gets muckier the more people you encourage to see a flop.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #389
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

RE: DiamondLie AK...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake View Post
I'd just call the first time around on that flop. He'll probably slow down with AJ-. If I'm raising here, I probably want to be able to call 3-bet. I certainly want to be willing to shove the turn if called. If these two scenarios aren't the case, I don't really like raising.
Devin, who's going to slow down-the bettor or the caller? Are you just calling in a defensive mode to the "minbettor" and the caller? If the caller has TPTK beat, wouldn't he raise on this board? I think both of your qualifications are met here. I would raise/4 bet now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Lie View Post
Ok, wanted to see if calling and getting it all in on turn was better, or if anyone was for getting it all in on this flop

Or if most thought it was a fold on flop
I personally would have gotten it in on the flop, shoving over his minraise. your misclick has also disguised your hand a bit and the caller has a short stack.
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:04 PM   #390
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I'm not sure I'm making good bet sizes here. CO is pretty lagish, 32/18 maybe more aggro pf, w/ a stl% >35. BTN is a calling station. PF I raised pot+1bb, standard?


Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $103.00
BTN: $80.40
Hero (SB): $121.40
BB: $74.30
UTG: $49.50
MP: $51.60

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with K Q
2 folds, CO raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, CO calls $12.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($36.50) 3 4 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $22, CO calls $22

Turn: ($80.50) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $65, CO calls $65 all in

River: ($210.50) J
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