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Old 01-10-2008, 03:50 PM   #426
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59 View Post
JG - KQ - I give up after he calls the flop. I dont think 2 barreling is going to work because the turn did nothing and he likes his hand.
I picked up the 2nd nfd, does this matter? I just felt he was week and wouldn't play strong overpairs like this. He ended up calling with AQw/ the Q flush draw and I miss on river, blah.

Anycomments on the K9o river play?
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:08 PM   #427
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

in that AK hand how come you guys are raising the flop? i have no problem with stacking off in that hand but that flop is really dry and it seems like you dont get paid from worse unless vill is wild and is 3b with like KT.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:14 PM   #428
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippin_criss View Post
in that AK hand how come you guys are raising the flop? i have no problem with stacking off in that hand but that flop is really dry and it seems like you dont get paid from worse unless vill is wild and is 3b with like KT.

I like the flop call in that hand as well. I would usually shove the turn but I think it's fine as played also.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:16 PM   #429
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip View Post
I picked up the 2nd nfd, does this matter? I just felt he was week and wouldn't play strong overpairs like this. He ended up calling with AQw/ the Q flush draw and I miss on river, blah.

Anycomments on the K9o river play?
If you had the nut flush draw I guess I'd like it better. I think some significant part of his range is the Ac.

I don't know on the K9 - has he shown any river aggression prior to this hand? It could be a lot of stuff other than a J. Maybe he shoved as a bluff, maybe he thinks his A high or overpair is good, maybe he is trying to get some value out of his J. Its a tough spot where more detailed reads are useful.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:57 PM   #430
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

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Originally Posted by GtrHtr View Post
um, how hard do you go at it this deep? villain is 30/5 and I have no idea where he makes money even over 100 hands. His usual line is to bet $1 oop regardless of position and then jam the turn or river w/ a psb. thoughts on my line?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $25.15
CO: $100.00
Hero (BTN): $340.90
SB: $113.30
BB: $66.55
UTG: $273.40

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with A 9
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, UTG calls $3

Flop: ($9.50) 7 9 T (2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero raises to $7, UTG calls $6

Turn: ($23.50) K (2 players)
UTG bets $18, Hero calls $18

River: ($59.50) K (2 players)
UTG bets $22, Hero raises to $66, UTG calls $44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake View Post
I might overbet shove this river. Looks a lot like JQ to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
I like a bigger bet on river. He's not calling anything without trips, a straight, or a worse flush (unless he's crazy) and he'll likely call more with any of those.

Pushing is like $240 into $90 though - I think you gotta have a crazy image or villain be a big time sheriff to make that good.
damn, I wish I'd been thinking like you guys when I was on the river, I just didn't pick up any kind of a read because of his strange style and for whatever reason couldn't see the coordination of the board.

I didn't even have time to think about his hand once I saw it come up on the hud but after reading you're comments I realized what it actually was and that I gave up a lot of value - even if that second K hadn't worried the hell our of me.

He had QJ and no way he woulda folded to a shove. I missed the train to valuetown
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:01 PM   #431
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

hay guys. early in session so no reads besides he was 40/0 over a small sample so prob a pro or something.



Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $28.70
BB: $22.05
UTG: $27.65
MP: $63.85
CO: $26.55
BTN: $34.05

Pre-Flop: T Q dealt to Hero (SB)
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) Q Q 8 (2 Players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25

Turn: ($4) J (2 Players)
Hero bets $3.25, BB calls $3.25

River: ($10.50) 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $7.25, BB raises to $14.50, Hero calls $7.25


river... felt like there was nothing else i could do although i can see folding if i had a specific read. thoughts? thxbai
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:38 PM   #432
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippin_criss View Post
hay guys. early in session so no reads besides he was 40/0 over a small sample so prob a pro or something.



Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $28.70
BB: $22.05
UTG: $27.65
MP: $63.85
CO: $26.55
BTN: $34.05

Pre-Flop: T Q dealt to Hero (SB)
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) Q Q 8 (2 Players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25

Turn: ($4) J (2 Players)
Hero bets $3.25, BB calls $3.25

River: ($10.50) 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $7.25, BB raises to $14.50, Hero calls $7.25


river... felt like there was nothing else i could do although i can see folding if i had a specific read. thoughts? thxbai
Blind vs blind - I cant fold trips on that board.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:58 PM   #433
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Theres nothing different you should be doing with this hand, you're not getting away from it and you played it fine
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:41 AM   #434
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

appreciate the replys on the AK hand. sorry if its standard, but i'm really terrible at cash despite killing sngs, so i'm sure i have a few obvious questions. hopefully it will click soon...
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:45 AM   #435
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

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Originally Posted by trivo View Post
appreciate the replys on the AK hand. sorry if its standard, but i'm really terrible at cash despite killing sngs, so i'm sure i have a few obvious questions. hopefully it will click soon...
Ya, losing a stack there is not a leak.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:01 AM   #436
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip View Post
Pre Flop: Hero is SB with K Q
I dunno. I kind of like check flop and fold if he bets. I don't think there's any way he's folding to a cbet on this flop and double barreling him isn't very appealing. You were kind of lucky in that you got a club turn which gives you a bunch more outs. Obviously when I squeeze here with KQ I'm cbetting the vast majority of flops, but I'm prepared to make 432 an exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip View Post
Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with A A
Bet flop. Who knows what he has, but presumably if he hates his hand now there's not a lot of cards on the turn that are going to improve it, whereas a spade on the turn might make him freeze up when he would have stacked the flop. It's hard for a check to gain much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip View Post
Pre Flop: Hero is SB with K 9
That river bet is pretty awful, check to induce a bluff from a busted gutshot or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trivo View Post
Pre-Flop: K A dealt to Hero (CO)
Generally you don't get away from AK in this spot. I would 4-bet it preflop against most players and fold it against very tight players. In general I dislike calling AK to threebets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippin_criss View Post
Pre-Flop: T Q dealt to Hero (SB)
I would check the river. The only situation where you are getting value is if he has JT or J9 - he probably doesn't have a worse queen but if he does he will bet it when you check, and I don't think he calls with worse than J9. I think it's likely that he has a busted draw or a better hand than you, or an 8 or something which he'll fold. If you bet and he raises, neither folding nor calling looks attractive to me. Checking avoids this situation - it probably loses a little value since he'll call JT or J9 more than he'll bet a busted draw, but I think it's +EV to avoid a potential raise.

If he's so bad that he might call an 8, then you can bet.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:07 AM   #437
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Thanks Chris. Its really hard to ch after 3betting preflop on those low rag boards. I feel like such a wuss

In the K9 hand at the table i was thinking oh god he could have a K so i can b/f but he could also have nothing but will probably make a big bet if i check but i don't want to c/c a big bet and see a K.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:03 AM   #438
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
Hero (BTN): $98.50
SB: $100
BB: $113.20
UTG: $126.50
CO: $73.15
Pre-Flop: 6 6 dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $5, SB calls $4.50, 2 folds
Flop: ($12) 5 3 4 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, SB raises to $32, Hero...

Is there enough money/equity for me to shove? Can I call here?
No reads, early, but he did just take a bad beat a couple hands ago when he got stacked with QQ making a K high straight to AQ making broadway.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:28 AM   #439
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Mike, here's a pokerstove with the hands he's prolly calling with. You def need some FE here to push tho. I don't know what the right play is. I think I lean towards folding usually.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

59,400 games 0.016 secs 3,712,500 games/sec

Board: 5d 3s 4d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.873% 36.40% 01.48% 21619 877.50 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 62.127% 60.65% 01.48% 36026 877.50 { 33+, AdJd, 9d8d, 7c6d, 7c6h }
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:03 AM   #440
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

A hand from a learning vid...

6 handed, NL100
2 folds
CO raises to $4 (a reg TAG)
Hero raises to $14 with K J
Blinds fold
CO calls

Flop A 7 9
CO checks
Hero checks

Turn Q
CO checks
Hero bets $18

Reasoning was that if Hero actually had an ace he would not bet that flop. By checking the flop we gain more info on Villain's hand and only lose little FE compared to cbet. Also, the PF 3bet was described as standard. Do you agree?
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:04 AM   #441
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunnip View Post
Mike, here's a pokerstove with the hands he's prolly calling with. You def need some FE here to push tho. I don't know what the right play is. I think I lean towards folding usually.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

59,400 games 0.016 secs 3,712,500 games/sec

Board: 5d 3s 4d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.873% 36.40% 01.48% 21619 877.50 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 62.127% 60.65% 01.48% 36026 877.50 { 33+, AdJd, 9d8d, 7c6d, 7c6h }
I'd add more dd combos on villains range.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:14 AM   #442
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

ya you prolly have about 40% equity against his calling range. If he's always calling you need to be better than 44%. I'm too tired to do the math to figure out how often he needs to fold to a push so maybe somebody else can. I'd guess that this might actually be a push?
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:24 AM   #443
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I was thinking of a range like this for an unknown who just took a bad beat:

Board: 4d 5d 3s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.163% 47.18% 01.98% 68659 2888.50 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 50.837% 48.85% 01.98% 71094 2888.50 { 22+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, A5s, A2s, KdQd, QdJd, JdTd, Td9d, 9d8d, 8d7d, 86s, 75s+, 65s, 54s, 43s, A5o, A2o, 75o+, 65o, 54o, 43o }
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:17 AM   #444
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

The 66 hand really is not worth worrying about. It is never that bad to shove it in here. Worst case - that he has a range that sucks for you and he's not folding any of it - you lose at the worst like 10 bucks in equity, but if he ever folds, it's huge for you. jgunnip's range is too pessimistic, for one thing it omits 22 which is definitely in his range, and there are other hands like A5 that are possible, and wtf at including 76 in his range but not 56. Also too many overpairs, AA-TT are prob not in his range. cha's is more realistic although maybe a shade loose.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #445
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by K䲰䮥n View Post
A hand from a learning vid...

6 handed, NL100
2 folds
CO raises to $4 (a reg TAG)
Hero raises to $14 with K J
Blinds fold
CO calls

Flop A 7 9
CO checks
Hero checks

Turn Q
CO checks
Hero bets $18

Reasoning was that if Hero actually had an ace he would not bet that flop. By checking the flop we gain more info on Villain's hand and only lose little FE compared to cbet. Also, the PF 3bet was described as standard. Do you agree?

While I agree villain is not generally going to lead into us with an Ace here, I would still prefer to c-bet this flop because we can make better hands fold. Plus our hand is basically complete air on this flop and it's going to be really easy to shut down if we get played with.

I think the 3-bet is fine if by TAG he means villain is something like 21/18 or whatever.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:58 PM   #446
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Ok please read these thoughtlines.

Villain is an aggressive TAG. A regular. He knows that my 3bet range is wider that the nuts. He calls 3bets 68% of the time (which is around average)

Anyone feel like c/r'ing this turn? If villain was holding a K wouldnt he raise flop?




Firetribe ($140.50)
seawater ($100.10)
OiledMan ($62.40)
masasmage ($157.45)
pay4mylv ($104.45)
guite11700 ($163.65)

Firetribe posts (SB) $0.50
seawater posts (BB) $1

Dealt to Firetribe 8 7
fold, fold,
pay4mylv raises to $4
fold,
Firetribe raises to $14
fold, call,

FLOP ($29) 3 2 K
Firetribe bets $21
pay4mylv calls $21

TURN ($71) 7
check,
pay4mylv bets $55
Firetribe?
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:08 PM   #447
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

Quote:
Anyone feel like c/r'ing this turn? If villain was holding a K wouldnt he raise flop?
He would probably flat call the flop with AhKh and KhQh and possibly with any 2 other hearts that were in his preflop calling range. Depends how he plays his draws but he might not think he has much folding equity if he has you on AK.

The biggest problem with a c/r on the turn is he's never folding anyway because he has 90% of his stack in there already.

Even if you were both 200bb's deep though I think I would just pass here.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:11 PM   #448
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I do think that this villain will push those draws and made hands majority of the time. As I mention he's aggro. Or maybe I have my spider sences miscalibrated in this spot? Is this a stanard spot to call a flop bet with draws/TPTK?
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:22 PM   #449
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I think most of the time AK is going to shove the flop here unless it's AhKh which might call or shove. I also think most draws are shoving often but not always.

So you're basically thinking that this TAG floated the flop in a 3-bet pot with something like 9,T no hearts or similar?

Seems kind of a really risky play at nl100 for even an aggressive TAG. Or maybe I'm just a little to straightforward a player to envision making this kind of move myself so I can't credit another player with it yet.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:08 PM   #450
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Re: STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

I don't like 3betting that wide oop against a decent opponent who likes to calls with a wide range 100bb deep. If he thinks you're 3betting wide and cbetting almost any flop his range could be 77+ AK/KQ/KJ, AQ/AJ plus any flush draws that he might have although I think most aggressive players would shove with their draws. After his turn bet I'd put him on AA/KK, AK/KQ, the AQ hands with a heart, maybe AhJx.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,936 games 0.005 secs 387,200 games/sec

Board: 3h 2h Ks 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.845% 24.85% 00.00% 481 0.00 { 8c7c }
Hand 1: 75.155% 75.15% 00.00% 1455 0.00 { KK+, AKs, KQs, AKo, AcQh, AdQh, AhQc, AhQd, AsQh, AdJc, AhJc, AhJd, AsJc, AsJd, AsJh, KQo }


I put in all AhJx combos and three other none heart combos to represent bluffs.

If you think he's bluffing more you're 31/69 if you include all AJo combos.
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