STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 - Page 115 - STT Poker Strategy

GtrHtr · 05-02-2008, 12:52 PM

Devin,

A3 I'd get it in, I'm usually ahead and once in a while run into a set or AT. Sucks if he had TT tho, I'm not that good of a hand reader yet.

77 hand check the turn get to showdown. Bet obv a A, K, or Q turn card but a 4 doesn't change anything in our equity.

cha

AQ ai there is bad, I'd also usually call the flop as your hand gets easier to define on the turn. Vs stations and weak players I'd put the hurt on them on the flop tho.

JJ I would be interested in hearing wuwie's expanded comments but I'd get it in vs shorty's there most of the time.

BobboFitos · 05-02-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

I was watching a video last night by bobbofitos and he was in this same spot with 77, and was in disbelief people fold it to 3-bets (which I often do

)BTN vs blinds. So, I guess I have to call here. Problem is, I'm going to be in a lot of iffy spots postflop with it. Anyway, here we go.

Villain is 17/12/5 after 500 hands or so.

Party Poker $600 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: $754.89
BB: $920.80
UTG: $683.00
CO: $624.00
Hero (BTN): $614.25

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 7

7

2 folds, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, BB raises to $77, Hero calls $56

Flop: ($157.00) 2

9

8

(2 players)
BB bets $110, Hero calls $110 (if you call here, what's ur plan?)

Turn: ($377.00) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ????

devin linked me to this, the questions for the hand are:
1. is our hand any different then JJ or TT?
2. if so, how?
3. how would you play JJ or TT?
4. does it make sense to play 77 the same way?

In general it's alright to "randomize" your flop play (natural balancing) by calling down with TT (drawing the arbitrary line there) and folding worse (absolute value wise) ie., it's ok to fold to the cbet on the flop.
Getting to the turn, it's alright to bet-call and it's alright to check, Villain checking is clearly a good thing though.

edit: I suppose you could make a rare rare opponent specific read that bet fold the turn is the best play, but conditions would have to be perfect, and it's a nonstandard play that should never be anyone's standard, if you bet the turn, you're putting your stack in.

Ditch Digger · 05-02-2008, 01:52 PM

Bobbo, is a 17/12/5 the type of guy you should really be calling a 3 bet with 77. If it is shouldn't betting the turn be mandatory since we'll want to fold out hands like T9 that would probably check turn and hope to god you check behind.

wuwei · 05-02-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GtrHtr

JJ I would be interested in hearing wuwie's expanded comments but I'd get it in vs shorty's there most of the time.

I don't have much to say except that we have a good hand getting strong pot odds against a couple of shorties playing their hands in an odd manner, so I get it in there *all* of the time.

cha59 · 05-02-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwei

Cha,

I have no idea what you're thinking about in the JJ hand.

Me either right now. I ran worse than I ever have for such a short period of time last night that I'm reaching to find the leaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwei

AQ is a little brutal with no reads, but I just muck it.

This was one of the leaks. Thanks to you all others who replied. I think this one fits into the category Microbet mentioned the other day in the **** thread - spew ~50 BBs here and you go from being a 5BB/100 player to a break even player over a 500 hand sample.

When you start going insane from never getting paid when you have an actual hand and getting coolered and bad beat a bunch of times, you see a hand like the AQ and think its great for a second, then right after you push the button you say to yourself, wtf am I doing. Stopping playing before that happens would help the win rate a lot.

Hey Bobbo - good to see you here. I hope this wasn't just a one time appearance

cha59 · 05-02-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwei

I don't have much to say except that we have a good hand getting strong pot odds against a couple of shorties playing their hands in an odd manner, so I get it in there *all* of the time.

I turbofistpumpshove hands like that every chance I get. Apparently I needed some reassurance after the way I ran last night.

Inyaface · 05-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

devin linked me to this, the questions for the hand are:
1. is our hand any different then JJ or TT?
2. if so, how?
3. how would you play JJ or TT?
4. does it make sense to play 77 the same way?

In general it's alright to "randomize" your flop play (natural balancing) by calling down with TT (drawing the arbitrary line there) and folding worse (absolute value wise) ie., it's ok to fold to the cbet on the flop.
Getting to the turn, it's alright to bet-call and it's alright to check, Villain checking is clearly a good thing though.

edit: I suppose you could make a rare rare opponent specific read that bet fold the turn is the best play, but conditions would have to be perfect, and it's a nonstandard play that should never be anyone's standard, if you bet the turn, you're putting your stack in.

Hey Bobbo,
1/2. Is pretty easy.Yes because we lose to 9x 8x 1010 and JJ. We have less equity vs QJ, J10, 10xhh etc.
3. I would probably flat the flop and reevaluate the turn but would shove on a bunch of people as well (and I think JJ is still different from 1010 in this spot)
4. Hell no it doesn't make sense to play 77 the same since they have very different value/equity.

BobboFitos · 05-02-2008, 05:16 PM

Inya, he's a 17/12 - my point is how many 9x or 8x things can he even have? not many. we're behind sets regardless, so it's really a slim equity advantage (certainly having TT IS better then 77 here!).
I also think it's barely a difference between TT and JJ, if getting it in is correct w/ one, 98% of the time it will be correct with the other. (and if it's not correct with one, 98% of the time it's not correct with both).
I think your line w/ JJ/TT is fine.
I don't fully agree, I think a strong argument could be made for lumping them together.

GtrHtr · 05-02-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwei

I don't have much to say except that we have a good hand getting strong pot odds against a couple of shorties playing their hands in an odd manner, so I get it in there *all* of the time.

oh, ok, nm. haha. I was like wtf but misread your post(s).

GtrHtr · 05-02-2008, 05:29 PM

I'm a little lost so forgive me Bobbo and Inya.

Bobbo, are you saying that equity wise in this spot 77 is similar to TT and JJ?

DevinLake · 05-02-2008, 08:52 PM

villain is 46/7/1.8

Thoughts on this non-standard hand?

Party Poker $400 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BB: $396.00
UTG: $611.50
MP: $544.68
CO: $370.50
Hero (BTN): $411.10
SB: $92.18

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q

2

2 folds, CO checks, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, BB calls $16, CO calls $20

Flop: ($62.00) K

A

8

(3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $54, BB folds, CO calls $54

Turn: ($170.00) 3

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $54, CO calls $54

River: ($278.00) T

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $241

KoreanBuffet · 05-02-2008, 09:47 PM

Well I don't hate the c bet but I certainly don't like it very much. The turn is horrible why are we betting less than 1/3rd the pot at a card that doesn't change the board at all. This doesn't fold out draws or pairs. Villain has stats of a passive fish I just don't see why we are 3 barreling with air here. Give up on turn?

Is this possibly 56 level thinking that we get a draw to put in money then take it away on the river when it bricks off?

microbet · 05-02-2008, 10:04 PM

Devin's 77 hand

What if we check behind and then he pots river (various river cards)?

I had a similar hand last night. It checked through the turn. The river was an 8 and villian potted. (my villain was more like 28/14)

Maybe would could change the name of this thread to "STTF->Cash + BobboFitos".

DevinLake · 05-02-2008, 10:06 PM

well, I bet the flop because that flop hits my range a lot harder than someone that posted oop and called my raise. So, basically my plan for the hand is to give up or three barrel. I don't like 2 barreling here with out three barreling.

However, with stack sizes, I can't just pot pot pot...cause river will be like 1/4th pot or something. Also, I don't think he folds much to my bet/check/bet line either. So, cause I really wanted to 3 barrel and felt he never really has a hand that can withstand a three barrel, I bet an amount on the turn that setup a nice river size shove.

That's my thought process anyway. Flame away.

futuredoc85 · 05-02-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GtrHtr

I'm a little lost so forgive me Bobbo and Inya.

Bobbo, are you saying that equity wise in this spot 77 is similar to TT and JJ?

yep. Villain is 17/12. For the most part anything he is value-betting is beating TT/JJ a very similar % of the time as it is beating 77, since 98, T9, etc. are not really in his 3-betting range most of the time, and he is definitely not going to be value shoving them here all the time since it would be suicide to do so with his image.