completely agree. Only thing i would add is that when you say "not wanting to 3-bet to fold to a 4-bet" that of course applies only to hands that are profitable to flatcall.

The only reason I 3 bet is b/c I had position. OOP I auto call pf.

All great points. I am soooo bad about about thinking about his ranges... I often act too quickly, but you and soo many people remind me think about ranges. When I think about ranges I do well, but I think I was tilting... so I went to bed after this hand...

Thanks.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $104.60
CO: $119.55
BTN: $99.50
Hero (SB): $197.50
BB: $142.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q Q
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3

Flop: ($8.00) 3 8 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, BB calls $7

Turn: ($22.00) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $16, BB calls $16

River: ($54.00) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $36, Hero calls $36

vill 24/18/2.3

i dont have any history with this player, but if he's been at all observant there have been fireworks with me and the guy to my right.

on this river i felt like check/call was better than bet/fold. not rly sure. i guess theres lots of AX pair stuff that makes 2 pair on the river, and with a bet i get to determine how much money im going to lose when i bet/fold, and with a check/call it's pretty much up to vill's discretion, but i could get away from a PSB or something.

DrJ,
Being OOP should give you more incentive to three bet. Guys will call three bets wider in position and it is harder to play the hand OOP so you want to reduce the amount of decisions in the hand. That being said with TT I would call both in position and OOP to an UTG open FR.

Bengie,
Bet the river people love to call down BVB and he will calls with lots of 8x and 9x hands, but won't turn them into bludds or vbet them.

pudge:

how are these reasons to 3bet oop ?

bengiec betting the river is def better, the only reason to check is if he has a draw and he shouldn't have one too often given his passive play, the paired board etc.

Sorry I wasn't clear.
With hands like TT you want to three better wider OOP since people will call wider, although it probably doesn't matter in 50nl. As well you can gain the impetus, which makes the hand easier to play because against some people c/ring a bare overpair is too thin, but you are left c/c, c/c, c/f or c/c, c/f or lots of other stuff that isn't that fun.
Also in general I three bet wider OOP because I can three bet hands profitably OOP that I can't call profitably so making me three betting range a little stronger is pretty cool as well.

Edit: Don't really like what I wrote here it's okay, but not great, but it's 4am and I am tired. I will write it tomorrow.

BENGIEk,

def. bet the river. If you check it should probably be with the intention check/fold, and obviously that'd be super lame.

By 3betting in position most players will fold anything you're ahead of so you are turning your TT into a bluff. On the other hand when you are out of position and 3bet, most players will call with a bunch of speculative stuff so you are betting it for value.

uhh... yea, please re-write after you've rested, I am confused... this seems opposite to what Gramps and FutureDoc wrote...

ok, that makes sense

The only reason to 3-bet a hand like TT is to get it in preflop or because someone is flattign with a wide enough range to make it profitable to 3bet regardless of what happens if he 4bets. This is often the case when someone raises in LP and we 3-bet from teh blinds

"The only reason" is going a bit far; you also threebet it to protect your hand against stuff like KJ. But that isn't usually a sufficient reason by itself.

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $113.00
Hero (SB): $52.45
BB: $73.70
CO: $50.00

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with T A
1 fold, BTN raises to $2, Hero calls $1.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.50) 2 Q 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.50, Hero raises to $9.50, BTN raises to $91, Hero?

Villain is solid player at 50nl, but too tight: 13/9/2.5

Call call call

40% against QQ+,33-22,AQs,KQs,QJs,AQo,KQo,QJo
38% if you remove QJ from his range
35% if you further remove KQ from his range

there's $23.5 + $40.95 in the pot and you have to call $40.95
.35($64.45) - .65($40.95) = $22.56 - $26.62 = -$4.06

So you're losing $4 against the worst possible range.
Against the range you're 40% against, it's a +EV call.

And in general, villains will show up with random stuff like TT and a worse flush draw some marginal percentage of the time... hands you are a large favorite against.

If he's 13/9, I'm folding PF (especially to a 4X raise) - as you can see even when you like the flop, it can be very awkward OOP (e.g. your C/R here may fold out hands you do well/okay against when the pot's small, but bring along his bigger hands that you're a decent dog against when the pot is (now) huge).

ATs is roughly on par with his likely button range - OOP makes it a clear loser long-run unless he's terrible postflop.

PF is pretty bad vs a 13/9, call now for the reasons wiggs gave.

Thanks, FWIW, I instacalled, then had second thoughts about doing it against such a tight player. I'm surprised at the advice not to defend my blind with ATs. I will think about this. The best advice is always the most unexpected.

BTW villain showed KK w Ks ... but I hit the flush anyway

Eh, well fwiw, it's an easy call if he flips his hand up after he shoves.

Also, we're not saying not to defend with ATs... it's just not great OOP against a 13/9.

Here is a great example of me getting into trouble in cash games playing mediocre hands. I guess this is an easy fold for everyone else?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $31.30
MP: $52.55
CO: $4.65
Hero (BTN): $64.50
SB: $53.80
BB: $53.25

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with J Q
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, MP calls $3, 1 fold

Flop: ($8.75) 7 6 Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $6, MP raises to $49.05 all in, Hero calls $43.05

Turn: ($106.85) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($106.85) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Any reason to not raise river?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $55.25
BTN: $50.00
SB: $80.80
BB: $40.90
Hero (UTG): $75.45
UTG+1: $59.00
UTG+2: $63.55
MP1: $44.65
MP2: $60.55

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $2, 7 folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) K 7 Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB calls $2

Turn: ($8.25) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB calls $5

River: ($18.25) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, BB raises to $31.90 all in, Hero calls $1.90

I hated the guy on the button. I think losing a huge hand earlier to his very loose call, and his constant raising my sb made me want to fight back here. Please critique all streets... my guess is ok pf-f, but I should have let go on the turn...

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $72.45
MP2: $49.35
CO: $37.05
BTN: $98.35
Hero (SB): $49.50
BB: $25.00
UTG: $61.00
UTG+1: $50.00
UTG+2: $53.75

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with Q K
6 folds, BTN raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, BTN calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) J 4 J (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN calls $5

Turn: ($20.50) A (2 players)
Hero bets $10, BTN calls $10

River: ($40.50) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $15, Hero folds

jagermeister is strong **** imo

you folded a str8 to that small bet? I'd at least call.

a fair % of the time I'd check the flop for pot control. I'd have to have a very good read to get it in.

on the QQ hand bet more on the flop. with that board, I'd either pot it or come close to pot. Don't slow play your big hands.