Hi Guys!
Push, raise or fold ? What think?
Att,
fhponce
Tks

Some info on bb bvb ?
Anyway jamming is the worst...

you forgot to add limp as an option

Sorry my english, but what is "jamming"?
No information the BB. I play multi tabling then i dont get information. I realy forget the limp. Would be good?

jam = push
Limp can be good, minraise can be good and even fold can be good, just depends on any info you have on bb.
But you have 0 info so then my choice is limping or minraise, but at these limits players usually don't defend bb enough, so a minraise would work out better then.
Pushing is bad, you risk so much to gain so little chips with a hand that has really bad equity vs his calling range, for example 85s has more equity than J7o, if you understand what i mean.

i have understood. Thankyou !

Fwiw, do not minraise, make it x2.5 as standard. I call all day in position if anyone min raises me. Price etc...



As played, the shove is pure bad. Stacks are to big for a shove here (as said previously to gain 80 chips) without any reads. 2.5 it or fold.

Agree with others super bad shove.
It would be bad if bb also had 18bb, but the fact he has you well covered makes it even worse. Its much more likely he can call as he will pay much lower icm tax then if you had him covered.
Also you must have some stats or reads on him. if he is reggy i like making it 2.5bbish. if hes not a reg you can try limp stab flop. If hes a maniac just fold.
fold bb to lp steal stat so important for spots like these.

You shouldn't make decisions on what the best play is based on what you would do versus that action. You should evaluate the play against your specific opponent, or readless like this, versus the whole population of opponents.

That is fair, but as a generic move I have been told by a pro that I should raise x2.5 pretty much every time I get involved bvsb. Also if you fold to a min raise 85% of the time bvsb you are being exploited. I see this as weak play in position. Obviously if villains raise from sb is like 8% I will always lean towards fold. But as a generic play against lively unknowns I am calling weak min raises a lot.

Do not get used to sth. like a "generic move" unless it's a no-brainer. Sure you can use sth generic like a specific SB opening size and might do fine, but there are opp&ranges where 2x or 3x and/or wide limping ranges, w/e ... are optimal. If you get used to sth like that you'll almost certainly end up in lots of spots clicking your 2.5x hotkey where it's not the best play.

The pro doesn't play your stakes, maybe not even your game type and I'm pretty sure he was assuming diff things than you.

I think you are either misreading what I write or I am not putting it across clearly enough Leak. Either way, I am a huge fish. Cheers.

You are invited to my home games from now on..
The fact you are here asking for advice is the first step in changing your game for the better.

If you are in Vegas I am right there Squeeze, win, lose or lose!! I don't care, its a win for me

I seriously live in Vegas

Instead of trying to find tricks like this 85% thingie figure out the math.

'Exploited' is kinda a dirty word in a lot of sng situations. If villain can shove 100% and we have to correctly fold everything but the nuts, we are not really being exploited unless we have some viable strategy that is more profitable than 'just folding.'

Any rate, you should probably not be defending against minraises 85% for a lot of reasons. The only time to call in 'generic default situation' would be blind versus blind 25+big blinds against a player that you could read fairly well (read bad).

Haha I definitely recognise this hand (the first vs me hand I have ever seen, digging out an old lurker account just to reply ), as I also did a bit of homework myself on this one because I wasn't 100% my call was correct at the time (ICM says just barely against a pretty tight range).

FWIW as the board ran out min/2.5X - Cbet flop might well have taken it down on that flop although with the hand I happened to get dealt I'd say I'd 3b or reshove there pretty often preflop given your stack size.

Looking back on the hand you were playing pretty tight according to HEM2 so I reckon 1010 is definately about as low as I would normal call off 18bb there, the antes sweeten the pot a little but I'd guess what swung it was I figured that most folk wouldn't be open shove something that is beating TT for 17-18bb.

In general I think you can mix it up a little with limp stab/min raises etc, folding the unsuited version of J7 hand is probably ok against a much bigger stack as lots of good players will reshove you reasonably wide wide since it is your tournament neck that is be on the line (Not claiming I am on of the good ones btw I am still learning too).

You are slightly the shortest stack at the table but you still are not too shallow and could definitely afford to be patient and wait for a better spot, definately no need to stick it all in in a pretty marginal spot.

Not run this hand at all but 90%+ TT virtually always a call unlike 88/99 cause it will always hold decent equity versus an realistic shoving range for villain (why would vll open shove AA for example).

Really bad shove, with still 18 bb's and facing a bigger stack! That is the worst play possible in that situation. Yes, way too early for a war blind.

I'd probably raise (2 - 2.5x) and fold to a reraise.

Abraços! =)

For everyone saying that shove is terrible/the worst move in the history of poker/etc, a quick journey into ICMizer tells us that it's very close to breakeven. In fact if we expect the BB to call a tad tighter than Nash, a shove is actually profitable.



We're not gaining 80 chips. We're gaining 80 (BB) + 40 (SB) + Antes (40) = 160 chips.

[QUOTE=TheEcologist;46435585]Fwiw, do not minraise, make it x2.5 as standard. I call all day in position if anyone min raises me. Price etc.../QUOTE]

Regret made an excellent point here:

You shouldn't make decisions on what the best play is based on what you would do versus that action. You should evaluate the play against your specific opponent, or readless like this, versus the whole population of opponents.

Also I want to add just because you're defending rather wide doesn't make my min open automatically negative. You've basically just said "Oh I defend 100% vs min opens but a much tighter % vs 2.5x" which means when I min, I'm playing a ton of pots vs an overall weak range. Why is that bad for me, exactly? Yeah I know I'm OOP but if you've got a super weak range, it's going to be awfully tough for you to call three barrels.

A lot of guys subscribe to this "I can profitable defend this %" and then they end up butchering postflop. Be careful. And I'm not even going to get into ICM considerations here as that surely impacts the 85% number, which at this point in time I want to go on record saying is incorrect.

We should try to avoid generic/standard moves and go for max value.

The "I have been told by a pro" part is pretty LOL as a lot of posters on here play for a living and would disagree. There's no mention of whether this pro plays your specific game type/limits and that can obviously make a huge difference. Could he be right in cash? Sure. Would he be wrong in 6 max 10 BB hyper sats? Definitely.

I am a massive fish as i have said before so what do i know? The 160 chips makes the shove correct it seems. I cannot believe I ever win a single hand.

Having a jam range in this spot is fine, esp vs opponents who will flat widely and attack limps and play post well. But definitely not a hand like this. Hand doesnt play all that well post so Id prob go for a raise if youre gonna play it; somewhere around the 2.7x range. Im personally just passing here a lot. Honestly Im prob only playing this if opponent is weak and a limp/bet is going to show a decent profit. The icm here makes it hard for a minraise to be that profitable. A tad deeper or without as much icm pressure, i like to play this hand as a raise pre.

Things might change if guys like u or aaron are involved obv.