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STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

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Old 08-05-2012, 03:32 PM   #1
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Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

Merge - $5+$0.50|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 2,308.00
Hero (SB): 2,157.00
BB: 1,350.00
UTG: 1,643.00
CO: 6,042.00

BTN posts ante 25.00, Hero posts ante 25.00, BB posts ante 25.00, UTG posts ante 25.00, CO posts ante 25.00, Hero posts SB 150.00, BB posts BB 300.00

Pre Flop: (575.00) Hero has J 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2,132.00 and is all-in, BB calls 1,025.00 and is all-in

Flop: (2775.00, 2 players) 5 2 8

Turn: (2775.00, 2 players) 2

River: (2775.00, 2 players) 4

Kind of a tough spot imo because of icm considerations. What range should we be shoving here?
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:03 PM   #2
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

wideee, juicy antes, great odds even when called, only 4bb deep

yum yum ship it, 60-70%
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:06 PM   #3
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

You mention ICM, so you should know that your shoving range here as always strictly depends on what range you think he's calling with.

J7o is super easy shove for most opponents here.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:01 PM   #4
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

YNC, which type of opponents would you not consider shoving this? I assumed we would have very little fold equity here
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:37 PM   #5
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

It doesn't matter if you have fold equity or not here. You make money shoving whether he calls 1%, 100%, or anything in between. Need to be able to identify these shoves

Fwiw I put this in wizard under chip EV mode and the lowest I could get it is +186 chips and that's with him calling ~perfect vs our exact hand . That's pretty huge and something we're just never passing on
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:08 PM   #6
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

ok cool, thanks tomodak
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:24 PM   #7
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

easy shove. Would be pushing 80% or more here as std.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:44 AM   #8
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

this is gotta be a shove...
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:41 AM   #9
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerf aces View Post
YNC, which type of opponents would you not consider shoving this? I assumed we would have very little fold equity here
I never consider not shoving here intuitively, it was just to illustrate that it might be calling-range-dependent.
I didn't guess that we should shove J7o here if calling range is 100%, but ok

btw that scenario is not totally irrelevant, from time to time you'll find fish who donked theirselves to a bigstack in knockout tournaments and call shoves with atc with low effective stack sizes for bounty value.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:19 PM   #10
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

id expect him to call quite significantly less than half of the time. somewhat obv atc push?
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:29 PM   #11
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogzpp View Post
easy shove. Would be pushing 80% or more here as std.
I would be pushing this 80% range as well as the other 20%. I think its profitable with 100% of your range.

zero
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:58 PM   #12
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

Why did u use chip ev tomo? I never use chip ev, when should I?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:45 AM   #13
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Re: Shoving from SB shallow 5 handed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomoDaK View Post
It doesn't matter if you have fold equity or not here. You make money shoving whether he calls 1%, 100%, or anything in between. Need to be able to identify these shoves

Fwiw I put this in wizard under chip EV mode and the lowest I could get it is +186 chips and that's with him calling ~perfect vs our exact hand . That's pretty huge and something we're just never passing on
Excellent analysis
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