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question about rake question about rake

02-01-2016 , 01:09 PM
I play DON sng and I'm using an ICM calculator. is rake factored into this? for simplicity say its a $10.1 HU SNG. does the fact I need to win more than 50% have any affect or is it already taken into consideration?
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02-01-2016 , 02:50 PM
Icm works on prize pool. No need to even consider icm in heads up!!
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02-01-2016 , 04:25 PM
yea the heads up was just an example. I play DON sng. when I check my plays, say it says shoving AK has EV of +2.36. Does that take into account the 10% rake I pay or do I need to adjust these calculations
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02-02-2016 , 07:27 AM
ICm doesn't consider rake, because it doesn't need to.
You don't need to adjust things, just make enough +ev plays to beat the rake is all.
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02-02-2016 , 08:46 AM
It doesnt consider rake. I wouldnt say it doesnt need to.

1st hand of a HU-DON 10 + 1, Villain goes all-in. ICM/stove will tell you that calling with 51% is correct but if you'd do that, you would lose money. Because 0.51*20 = 10.2 < 11.
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02-02-2016 , 09:15 AM
Of course what you demonstrate is factually correct, but I'm not sure it helps.
The example OP gave is actually horrible. To use HU sng - a game with no ICM to demonstrate how an ICM tool works when playing DON - a format with extreme ICM is just a terribad idea.
From a practical point of view the fact is when OP plays a sng he needs to beat the rake and make his profit on top. He'll do that by continually taking the most +ev actions. He can do that pretty well with an ICm calc without ever thinking about rake.

A very good, very experienced player who knows his edge, understands in great detail each aspect of the ICM and how it will affect future situations, *might* pass up very thin ICM spots, to allow his big edge to flourish later - but none of these factors are really of any use to our less experienced friend here.
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02-02-2016 , 07:22 PM
thanks. again. I realize the HU example was bad. You have pointed it out 3x now. But u did understand the intent of my question, so thanks for answering it
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02-03-2016 , 07:54 AM
Dont think HU makes for bad examples, if we all known what we talk about. Couldve done just the same with a 9man SNG, but instead of 51% I need 56% and we could start argueing about the future EV of having a bigstack therefore making he 56% 54%. Actually, I think using HU games to illustrate/explore theory is beneficial, if all involved understand ICM.

Btw, I was only posting, because its an old question I have and in all those years Ive never seen anyone ever talking about it.
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05-24-2017 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronny Mahoni
Dont think HU makes for bad examples, if we all known what we talk about. Couldve done just the same with a 9man SNG, but instead of 51% I need 56% and we could start argueing about the future EV of having a bigstack therefore making he 56% 54%. Actually, I think using HU games to illustrate/explore theory is beneficial, if all involved understand ICM.

Btw, I was only posting, because its an old question I have and in all those years Ive never seen anyone ever talking about it.

yes im a year late, but thanks for answering this question.
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05-25-2017 , 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao
thanks. again. I realize the HU example was bad. You have pointed it out 3x now.
haha
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