PokerStars - $3.16+$0.34|80/160 Ante 20 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 17.61 BB (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 17.31, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 169)
SB: 13.78 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 19.61, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 52)
Hero (BB): 21.33 BB
CO: 31.67 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 20.41, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 52)

4 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB) Hero has Q J

CO raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (5 BB, 2 players) 9 Q 5
Hero bets 2 BB, CO calls 2 BB

Turn: (9 BB, 2 players) 2
Hero bets 3 BB, CO raises to 6 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

River: (21 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, CO bets 21.54 BB and is all-in, ???

No real reads on villain beyond the stats. He did make a rather questionable call earlier on (called a SB shove from the BB with K5s for a decent chunk of his stack).

Pre: Is folding here too tight? I was tempted by 4:1 odds, but I have a bad history with these kinds of marginal hands.
F: standard
T: couldn't his range here at the time - I thought he might have picked up a draw and got excited. Called due to odds again, see if the river looks threatening.
R: Think this is a c/f, though I can't help be suspicious of his shove.

In hindsight I think his likely range after the turn includes a lot of 89, 9T TJ, KJ, with flush draws quite possible/probable. Does that sound about right, or am I missing something else here?

Donking flop is certainly not standard

Thanks. I was thinking it was fine to value bet small with TP here. Should it be a c/c, due to mediocre kicker, or am I missing something else?

It's not about the kicker strength, it's about getting max value and generally we should be checking to the raiser.

I would also consider folding PF and agreed it's always a check/call heads up out of position.

folding preflop is an absolute disaster. I do not know any situation in my entire career where i have ever done it, even against the sickest of nits. closing the action, antes and a ****ing good hand equity wise.

There will be some tricky postflop spots for you, as your range is generally weaker than the raisers, that is why you should put most of your strong hands in icmspots like this in a passive line to make sure you are not able to get bluffed by 100% of villains range.

Furthermore even in a vacuum i cant see bet ever being better than check. Think about what your bet accomplishes.

QJ is at the bottom of the equity range for sure. It's not a disaster. Go look at your HEM data...

ok disregard everything i said!

Welcome back, Quadz!

Raiser is small bl. So isnt his range weaker as he is also ch.leader?cant u induse a blufwith a small lead?also ott there are some draws...why to follow a completely passive line
And not trap him going for first?he doesnt seem nit enough from his stats..

I don't understand any of that

well i guess if you make the mistake of folding QJo or similar hands the BBs range is stronger and you can play flops more agressively. However that will still be a lower EV strategy then to flatcall way more hands preflop and play passively with most of what you want to continue with on the flop

[QUOTE=Mecastyles;47076570]well i guess if you make the mistake of folding QJo or similar hands the BBs range is stronger and you can play flops more agressively. However that will still be a lower EV strategy then to flatcall way more hands preflop and play passively with most of what you want to continue with on the flop[
/QUOTE]

I just meant flat pre and ch-raise flop...this.
.not folding dj..sorry it wasnt clear enough..

This hand turned out way more controversial than the 1-2 'fold pre, check flop you idiot' I was expecting.

only because 2 people gave bad advice

hope u didnt mean me couse i never try give any advise,just cant understand why play this particular hand by ch-call all streets with these draws,and a loose aggr.bbl...

er,

probably fold pre having a comfortable stack on bubble here. As played, bet more on flop. Bet more on turn, at this point were note value betting, just trying to take pot down and find were you stand. Played very weak overall. I think villian hit aces up on river or had you drawing dead on flop.

no

Maybe I'm bad, but I think that we have a sick bluff catcher on the flop and there's no shot I'm leading. I'd be a bit torn between c/r and c/c, and I'm not 100% sure what's best, but I think in general calling is better because aggro opponents are just going to barrel the turn almost every time. Not to mention, the cards that are good for his range are also bad for our hand (Aces and Kings) which leads to a lot of super easy turn decisions. I guess we get burned when he has another Q, but you can't win em all imo. Hopefully we have a decent read on how frequently he is bluffing turn/river.

BTW, if any of you guys think mecastyles is wrong in this spot, you should probably reconsider.

Two?

so ch-call all streets is ok ,except an A-K hit river?is this the most profitable line and what acbarone means about max value..?

haha