Hey everyone, I want to start a little discussion here and get your insight.

First I know this situation is unique, but I would like to comment it.

First, Im from Chile, I'm 22, and never studied anything past high school (reasons not important) now, a job for a guy like me mainly consist of stores, call centers, or storage (warehouses, not sure the name) the place where everything is kept for stores, manufacturers, etc. Of course, cleaning jobs, fast food places, etc.

Payment in Chile is mainly (90%+) monthly, and the average for those types of jobs is between 400 and 500 USD (conversion made)

Average hours per week: 40-45 hours

Made the Math, the avg per hour of work is USD2.30 rounded up, yes is very little, not the point, I know is 3rd world country and blah blah, onto DoN's:

Why did I told you all of this seemingly useless information?, well. Ive read a lot here in 2+2 that DoN's are NOT profitable. And want to make some clarifications for myself as to what people mainly mean with this.

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Played 25 DoNs at Party Poker $6 buyin: Stats 41% ROI, 80% ITM (yes, sample size sucks, wanted to get avgs)

This is NOT a heater, I understand that this will vary in time and probably go down to less, but I'm not doing anything great, getting great cards, nothing out of the ordinary, trust me, I had a heater and this is regular, not bad nor good. What I noticed after playing these is:

AVG Duration is: 40 mins.
And the hourly rate was $7.50 rounded down.

As you can see from my disertation on chilean ****ty jobs, this is a LOT compared to that.

Even if ROI was cut in half to 20%, the hourly rate would be: $3.75 aprox

What am I getting to with this?

When people say that this are NOT profitable, they mean that they are very low profitability? (As in not enough to buy a happy meal in most countrys?)

Because for example for me thats pretty good.

Yes, rake is stupid high, I guess I can get something back eventually with Partys VIP system.

But I also have to take into account:

I can play at any time, I'm not bound to a certain work time, I dont have to pay anything for transportation, etc...

So for me this are more profit than a regular job.

So I guess to wrap it up the main thing is:

Are this not profitable as in: You can't get enough money compared to a ****ty job in most countrys?

Or are this just not profitable as in you'll lose money for the time spent, in the long run?

And. What is the difference in both skillset and opponents in comparison to a regular STT?

Not a great player here, guess just your average joe that has played poker for 8 months now.

Sorry for grammar and wall of text, hope you guys read it and give me insight, thanks.

your sample size is worthless to the point that it's not even worth mentioning. I would try to get atleast 1500 games and then look over it. ppl turn a good profit in double or nothings. What % is the rake on party? I would just work very hard on your game and move ur way up. For someone in your situation I think poker is the best route for you.

It IS a heater, but DoNs are profitable, they just suck because ROI is pretty low, which can make them swingy at times and can make for evil stuff like 1000+ BE stretches, don't know how the rakeback system at party poker works? If there is a rakeback or FPP-kind of system, they should definitely be more profitable than your ****ty job if you are prepared to learn the game and put in decent volume.

25 games is nothing, there are regs that on average play more DoNs an hour, including their sleeptime.

I think if you learn and get to the point where you have a BR and the mindset and the skills to 30+ table them, you could become way more profitable than than your ****ty job, pretty sure a lot of the DoN grinders on stars have something like 30-50USD hourly rate, if not higher.

So, they suck because you have to put stupid high volumes to turn a big profit? Thats what I dont get, they are profitable but not THAT profitable? People keep saying they suck, I dont see how yet.

As above. Get at least 1,000 games played and then see where you are at.

No matter how much you say you weren't on a heater, you WERE on a heater if getting over 20% ROI at ANY level of DON

Ok, I was on a heater, moving on.

First sorry I missed it before.

Party Poker is stupid high rake, 20% on the $6 (5+1)
Is FPP style

Second:

So... they do suck because you have to put sky high volumes?

move up to the 11s.

They suck because you can go on some pretty rough swings when the ROI is that low. The only way to really be as profitable as you want is to then put in the massive volumes. These days most people who play DoNs have studied the game, learned the skills, and put in the table time to be on about the same high level as everyone else. With more regs and less fish, you get a thin ROI. It's not impossible to turn a profit, but it's a lot harder than it used to be and requires higher volumes.

Sharkscope "proenca69" - nearly 13k DoNs played on Party, graph says it all:



/end thread

Juk

jeez... maybe I should just stick to regular 6 max ones...

I play the $50 games on Party Poker and the rake is only 6%. It gets lower as you move up. Of course the games get harder as well.

I had no idea DoN's were so swingy, you'd think only having to finnish in the top 50% would reduce variance :S

Everyone says DoNs know lower variance, but I don't know about that, I think the lower your expected ROI is, the swingier something is.

yes, the win rates are low and you have to grind a ton to make it worthwhile for any meaningful income. I'm sorry but we can't sit here and tell you where your line of "worthwhile" comes. It's different for everyone and many people say that every single form of poker sucks for various reasons, yet you see some people choosing to play them, and some not. That's how life is. You can make this type of hourly playing high volume of most forms of SNGs still, so if you want to focus on DoNs, fine. It's difficult, but if you have done your research in looking at attainable win rates and studying the game and still decide that it's worth it, then go for it. Look up graphs, go to the stickies here and find the DoN thread, post hands and work hard if you want to play them. good luck.