*** OFFICIAL PokerStars STT Suggestion Thread ***

[Simplicity8]

What do you guys think about adding 18man knockouts? No? That's what I thought. Get rid of 9man knockouts. The only purpose they serve is further splitting up the 9man turbo player pool, something we obviously don't want.

[grindtolive]

Originally Posted by Simplicity8

What do you guys think about adding 18man knockouts? No? That's what I thought. Get rid of 9man knockouts. The only purpose they serve is further splitting up the 9man turbo player pool, something we obviously don't want.

This couldnt be more true.FInally someone mentioned this.Whats the purpose of 9 man kos?To reduce the volume of normal turbos

[JD Klinkz]

Originally Posted by Mecastyles

By the way Walmsey, you forget something very important.

9man is harder to fill without alot regs, so a feeder system for regs to move up in is more important to get big traffic then 6max.

Im sure if 18mans had a 7$ to 30$ gap, 30 18man would fill way less than it is now, this applies too for 9man. It just fills to slow without many regs, and currently there are not enough 9man hyper regs because of the gaps in buyins, so they will run not so often, this again reinforces no higherstakes turbo regs to try em, and so on.

definitely you cannot make conclusions for 9man hypers the same way as 6man hypers,

This is the point I was trying to make when i claimed that deductions were being made about the 9man ecosystem based on information that has a conflicted of interest. Meca said it in a much nicer way than me.

I'm sure 6max are more popular in general but that doesn't mean that 9mans wouldn't run enough if there was fluidity within the system. There is no money moving up the stakes, rather it is hitting the 7s and then leaving the format.

[Eldorian]

Originally Posted by grindtolive

This couldnt be more true.FInally someone mentioned this.Whats the purpose of 9 man kos?To reduce the volume of normal turbos

i thought the KO are more popular than the normal Turbos? i do not have a horse in this race but wouldnt the logical thing than be to get rid of the normal Turbos?

[grindtolive]

Originally Posted by Eldorian

i thought the KO are more popular than the normal Turbos? i do not have a horse in this race but wouldnt the logical thing than be to get rid of the normal Turbos?

kos arent more popular than turbos.Always the turbos running are more than kos
The only thing they do is to suck volume from turbos

[Mecastyles]

lol, if i had to choose make every stt a KO, there is obviously more skill and edge to be made i an tournament that has extra considerations. Pretty stupid to ask to remove them, its about the only $30+ STT i play and win on a lot. Rather ask to remove one of the other two imo turbo/normal noKO stts....

[dybboss]

^no, KOs have less egde because donkey ****ty call becomes less ****ty and regs call shoves couple % wider, dont see any extra egde ;p
but i dont care, so whatever, for me all turbos/ko/reg speed should be removed as a relic of old sng era.

(and you win a lot because in general regs from niche sng types are bad cause they dont face top competition and stop evolving as players)

[Mecastyles]

eh noo, everything that complicates a game format will gain additional edge for a good player, whether it is losing money in the KO part but gaining more itm% or seeing more spots for KO EV doesnt matter. It is more complicating game format thus higher edge attainable.

this is pretty derailing though. I think my comment about 9man hypers is pretty plausible though so I hope they take it into consideration when choosing for more 9man hyper levels.

[SandmanNess]

Already posted on this in several threads but there is more money to be made currently in KOs than reg turbos.

[Simplicity8]

Originally Posted by Mecastyles

lol, if i had to choose make every stt a KO

That's fine. I would be curious to know if you'd like to replace "stt" with "sng". Anyways, the point I was trying to make is that the turbo 9man player pool shouldn't be further separated.

[Jackal69]

Originally Posted by PS Walmsley

We don't have any plans for 9-max $200s. The $100 6-max hypers are very popular so adding a $200 was a reasonable next step. The $100 9-max hyper is far less popular.

yes, thats more or less what i thought. Is there a plan to introduce a 300 or 500 6 max hyper anytime soon? Not saying it would be good/bad but interested to know what direction you are heading in.

[Sly Caveat]

What about allowing the $357 satellite hypers to run all week? Seems like that is long overdue.

[wayneking7]

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

Also the idea that "'1% roi is considered good' is a joke" is bad. 1% is $180/hr. Who in 2012 makes $180/hr ?

Thing is, its only the very top regs that will be able to make even 1% ROI. Id say the average reg will make <0% ROI. And any game where that is the case is a pretty big joke imo.

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

So would you somehow prefer players to be winning at 2%? What does that even mean, so they are going to win $240/hr? Where does this money come from (in 2012 where there is a lot of competition and 4 or 5 regs to every 1 or 2 fish at each table.) Stars doesnt decide the roi through rake, the market does through competition.

The money comes from the lowered rake.

The argument you (an some others) keep making about lowering rake will not better the games because the problem is not rake but the reg/fish ratio is just stupid, and would only be the case if the reg/fish ratio could get any worse. The reg/fish ratio has gotten progressively worse over the years and no matter how much money PS throws at it this is not going to get better. IMO we are at a point now where its likely not going to get worse, so the only thing that is going to make the games better is to lower the rake.

You really think the reg/fish ratio will ever get significantly better from PS spending more money on promos and advertising? U think they dont spend a **** load already?

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

Just asking for a rake cut isn't going to do anything because right now PS has no real reason to lower the rake without any rework of the VIP club (nothing in it for them)

Like others have pointed out, the effects of lowered rake will create a situation for people to play more/move up faster etc. And why does there even need to be something in it for them? PS nets a ridiculous amount of profit every year from ripping us off.

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

If rake was 0% the game can still be dead. Think about why.

This is prob the dumbest thing u have said itt.

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

As for 0% rake that is not true. Just to make it obvious, if PS offered 0.1% rake backgammon how many people do you think would play? Games are formed around fish. Maybe when a game runs it is profitable, but I consider a game dead if almost noone is playing.

Games run around regs, not fish. When the regs leave, so do the fish. Why u think the 9mans never go off anymore? Because regs arent open sitting. Its a know phenomenon that fish rarely open sit games.

[SandmanNess]

Originally Posted by wayneking7

Thing is, its only the very top regs that will be able to make even 1% ROI. Id say the average reg will make <0% ROI. And any game where that is the case is a pretty big joke imo.



The money comes from the lowered rake.

The argument you (an some others) keep making about lowering rake will not better the games because the problem is not rake but the reg/fish ratio is just stupid, and would only be the case if the reg/fish ratio could get any worse. The reg/fish ratio has gotten progressively worse over the years and no matter how much money PS throws at it this is not going to get better. IMO we are at a point now where its likely not going to get worse, so the only thing that is going to make the games better is to lower the rake.

You really think the reg/fish ratio will ever get significantly better from PS spending more money on promos and advertising? U think they dont spend a **** load already?



Like others have pointed out, the effects of lowered rake will create a situation for people to play more/move up faster etc. And why does there even need to be something in it for them? PS nets a ridiculous amount of profit every year from ripping us off.



This is prob the dumbest thing u have said itt.



Games run around regs, not fish. When the regs leave, so do the fish. Why u think the 9mans never go off anymore? Because regs arent open sitting. Its a know phenomenon that fish rarely open sit games.

+3.14159

[Eldorian]

Originally Posted by wayneking7

Games run around regs, not fish. When the regs leave, so do the fish. Why u think the 9mans never go off anymore? Because regs arent open sitting. Its a know phenomenon that fish rarely open sit games.

This is prob the dumbest thing u have said itt.

thank you for providing the building blocks... whatever the other argument the eternal pokertruth is: no fish no game