Official Double or Nothing Thread

[crackedquads]

Cashed in 8 or 9 of my last set of 11. Running at 72% ITM since I started these.

The fold is fine. wickss has a very very small need for any chips and has good tourney equity by folding every hand. Theres 2 players with micro stacks (3 players with less than 7 BBs) and one of them will be bubbling very soon. Given the payout structure I don't see how folding isn't the best play.

[blankoblanco]

i e-mailed stars support and told them i wouldn't be playing more of these unless they fix the insane rake. i strongly encourage you guys to do the same. stars does actually listen to the players, if enough speak up

they reason that it is simply a re-distribution of the same prize pool as a regular SnG so the rake should be the same. i argued this is flawed because,

1) the double-or-nothings are turbos, rake should be lowered accordingly
2) their argument hinges on an arbitrary assumption that rake should be based on number of entrants. the fact is that the structure and incentive is much more comparable to a HU sng which, rightly, has lower rake because a player can only hope to double his entry fee
3) rake is largely an entertainment fee for most players (most players lose). the double-or-nothing SnGs tend to see half or possibly 2/3rds the hands that a standard turbo SnG would see. less "entertainment" should cost less

[wickss]

Originally Posted by riskyrain

I don't like this fold. If the big stack shoved, I would like this fold.

Your huge FE if you shove coupled with the fact that your hand dominates every hand that calls you 4:1. Obviously you need to win the pot 90%+ or something, but I think that a 20BB cold shove has enough FE in this spot.

I don't need any chips. I'm guaranteed a win.

[BudELee236]

Originally Posted by wickss

Free PokerTraining Videos at PokerXFactor.com

Very Nice.

[warmachine]

wtf is up with all the open limpers late in DONs? Seems like way more than normal SNGs at 10,20, and 30 except i can't steal the limps as much . Anyone notice more open limping?

[DONT TEASE ME BRO]

how long does one of these take on average?

[crackedquads]

Originally Posted by warmachine

wtf is up with all the open limpers late in DONs? Seems like way more than normal SNGs at 10,20, and 30 except i can't steal the limps as much . Anyone notice more open limping?

Basically medium-ish stacks open limp or open minraise with med/high strength hands so they can call shorty shoves but fold to raises from bigger stacks in LP with 6-7 players and higher blinds.

[crackedquads]

Originally Posted by DONT TEASE ME BRO

how long does one of these take on average?

Since the structure has changed, the average is around 40-45 minutes.

[gedanken]

Originally Posted by warmachine

wtf is up with all the open limpers late in DONs?
Anyone notice more open limping?

YES! (???) I just tried a $2+.20 and it was a joke. At least 4 players were 35% vpip+. I was starting to wonder if there was some strategy unknown to me whereby limping 1/4 of your stack preflop was a proper adjustment to the bubble.

I also noticed a much higher percentage of people with avatars -- I was the only one without -- and more than the usual friendly chat.

at those stakes, anyway, it's a donkfest.

edit-- interesting comment on midstacks with medium strength hands. There's probably some of that, but the weaker players were imitating badly.

[BudELee236]

Why 2+2 SNG'ers should embrace instead of bemoan DoN's:

1) More bad players being attracted

2) Shorter games (only play down to 5) = more $/hr

3) Slower action (with more full rings) = more tables you can play = more $/hr

4) Lower variance = fewer suicidal thoughts


Agreed that vig is too high but if PStars addresses that issue I'm a fan.

[DCJ311]

Originally Posted by BudELee236

Why 2+2 SNG'ers should embrace instead of bemoan DoN's:

1) More bad players being attracted

2) Shorter games (only play down to 5) = more $/hr

3) Slower action (with more full rings) = more tables you can play = more $/hr

4) Lower variance = fewer suicidal thoughts


Agreed that vig is too high but if PStars addresses that issue I'm a fan.

This is all true, however the main point is that Stars not only needs to lower the rake, but that it's also in their best interest as well. The flat payout structure makes it hard for a n00b to go on a huge heater and cash out all their money, and encourages all the multi tablers to come in. Why not just make it $110+5 like it is in the HU Turbo SNG?

[MrEleganza]

Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy

fwiw they are saying the same thing on poket fives about the rake structure being retarded.

Good to know.

Originally Posted by wickss

I don't need any chips. I'm guaranteed a win.

So just a brag post, then?

[odinscott]

i actually liked them alot more when they werent turbo

i went from finishing in the money everytime yesterday, to about 7 out of 10 today, and this is at low low limits

friggin turbos turn the games into panic shoves where it doesnt matter if you wait until you have a premium holding, you will still get sucked out on when people are shoving hand after hand

[2tonbobby]

Dcj311 great idea.....

Price the DON's the same as the HU Turbo SNG's.

Excellent idea.

[FF_Barret]

I was 66% at the nonturbos and I just went 7/8 in the 5.50s so far at the turbos. I think I'm gonna be billion-table grinding the 5.50s-22s. If they lower the rake, I'll just make even more.