****Official Beginner/Basic Question Thread****

[TT6]

How do know the difference between playing badly and getting constant bad beats? I played a quick turbo session this morning, on all of the 8 tables I played I got my money in good and was sucked out on all (I put the HHs in pokerluckmeter and it put me in the bottom 0%! with odds of 214:1 on that happening).

However, I'm on quite a big downswing and I realise it can't all be bad luck. Does the fact that I'm almost always getting my money in good mean I'm playing too tight? I've read loads, understand ICM, use Wiz (which usually says I'm doing fine, but could be pushing more in the SB) analyze post game etc... but just keep getting sucked out on. I suppose what I'm asking is how do I manage to assess whether it's just me or constant bad luck?

[Jemz]

Hey,

Ive started playing again after a bit of a break and deposited 50$ into my PokerStars account. Im very inetrested in playing SNG's in order to build a bankroll.

Even after looking at the ones PokerStars has to offer, I am still confused as to which ones to play to start with? The turbo/ none turbo DoN's, $1.20 9 mans or $1.2 6 mans.

Would playing MTT's be a good idea also? Or whilst my Bankroll is so low should i just stick to one of the above?

Just looking for some advice from you guys as to how you tackled the lower BI SNG's.

Thanks a lot.

Jemz

[michty6]

The FAQ at the top of the forum would be the best place to start.

[Shai Hulud]

I started recently with a similar bankroll and I'm grinding the 18-mans on Stars ($1 atm, moving to $3 shortly). I started out trying to grind the 9-mans but I was pretty break even. The 18-mans are definitely way easier, I have a 40% roi over about 80 games so far (small sample, I know, which is why I'm waiting a bit to move up to the $3s), so if I were you I'd start there, they are super soft.

[Jemz]

Oh ok, becuase i was concidering the DoN's for a while. 18 Man 1$'s. I will deffo go take a look at those. Thanks for the feedback.

[mavs]

If you are making good decisions then you are winning money. Doesnt matter if you got sucked out or not, you made a good decision = you made money.

[zecasaralegu]

just keep playing and luck factor will balance, i had 0% and 474:1 of bad luck, but i had some good luck in other sessions

volume=balance

[TT6]

Thansk, I understand that luck and variance balance out, but my question still applies, at what point do you realise you're playing badly rather than it just being constant bad luck? Just played another session and again had constant suckouts - in fact the only one where I lost from behind was a shove of K9 in the SB which ran into KK in the BB, but that just feels completely standard now. Got to say this run is probably having a bad effect on my decision making.

Also, a related question, I find it difficult to call in the BB when I have a reg behind me pushing from the SB. I saw a hand earlier where a reg with over 15,000 games called on the bubble in the BB with 23 and claimed it was the right thing to do as the SB could be pushing with any 2 so the blinds made it a call - is this right??

The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Poker Stars $6.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 5 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: t1095 M = 3.65
BB: t1860 M = 6.20
UTG: t3280 M = 10.93
CO: t4905 M = 16.35
Hero (BTN): t2360 M = 7.87

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is BTN with 8 5
3 folds, SB raises to t1095 all in, BB calls t895

Flop: (t2190) 3 T 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t2190) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2190) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t2190
SB shows A 4 (high card Ace)
BB shows 2 3 (a pair of Threes)
BB wins t2190

[jurrasstoil]

I don't think there is an answer to your question that will give you the ability to identify run good/bad and play good/bad.
What you are asking for is far too abstract and complex to put in words.
It's based on experience and knowledge. If your knowledge about the game is limited and most of your decisions are based on a very high percentage of guessing, then it is harder to know whether you are playing good or bad or just running good or bad.
Review your games and you'll see if you are playing or running bad.

And I doubt you do understand variance. Check out these threads:
FAQ - 6. Variance, Downswings and Sample Size
A Post On Variance 12k $27s ROI & ITM Breakdown
Long Strat Post about Variance


The hand you posted is hilarious and beyond retarded by 15k reg. I mean, think about it yourself. Even if villain has Any two cards and you have 32s, how can you ever be ahead if every single hand that villain has is better than yours?

[zecasaralegu]

Originally Posted by TT6

The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Poker Stars $6.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 5 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: t1095 M = 3.65
BB: t1860 M = 6.20
UTG: t3280 M = 10.93
CO: t4905 M = 16.35
Hero (BTN): t2360 M = 7.87

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is BTN with 8 5
3 folds, SB raises to t1095 all in, BB calls t895

Flop: (t2190) 3 T 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t2190) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2190) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t2190
SB shows A 4 (high card Ace)
BB shows 2 3 (a pair of Threes)
BB wins t2190

this hand is sick...

[TT6]

Originally Posted by jurrasstoil

The hand you posted is hilarious and beyond retarded by 15k reg. I mean, think about it yourself. Even if villain has Any two cards and you have 32s, how can you ever be ahead if every single hand that villain has is better than yours?

I guess the point he was trying to make was that 32 is about 35% against a random hand - but that obviously isn't enough to make up for the relatively small blinds - maybe he was just embarassed about a misclick. Incidentally that hand is how I feel everything I do runs at the moment, but I guess that's just my bad mindset.

Thanks for the links on variance, I do feel I understand how long run bads can last, just still feel unsure as to how I'd be certain whether it was my play or my luck that was causing them (but I guess that's down to understanding of the game).

[Boomtown25]

Thanks Coolmatt and Jurrasstoil for responding, but after getting your responses, you are probably right about my sample size not being large enough to say that I always lose. It just seems thaty I always get cracked on those hands, but in reality it is just like any other hand getting busted on the river.

I think I was worried about putting too much value in them, but I tend to play them as suggested. Thanks again, just wanting to improve where I can and lately it seems like every time I get those hands I am nervous to play them or end up in a losing situation when I do.

[coolmat]

Originally Posted by Boomtown25

Thanks Coolmatt and Jurrasstoil for responding, but after getting your responses, you are probably right about my sample size not being large enough to say that I always lose. It just seems thaty I always get cracked on those hands, but in reality it is just like any other hand getting busted on the river.

I think I was worried about putting too much value in them, but I tend to play them as suggested. Thanks again, just wanting to improve where I can and lately it seems like every time I get those hands I am nervous to play them or end up in a losing situation when I do.

Poker is a game of discipline and it is hard sometimes. Try to play the same way AQ and don't be result oriented. The risk is that you get nervous and let say start limping with AQ in late position and then loose a big pot because one of the blinds hits 2 pairs with 75 and you don't know where you stand.

[Jaxit]

The hand below took place early on during a 9-man $1 STT on FTP (Hand 21) and I had gained the following information leading up to it:

The table dynamic is quite tight preflop with an average of 3 players seeing the flop. Most hands however are going to showdown as you would expect at this stake and this early in proceedings.

The villain is playing noticeably loose-aggressive and has assumed the role of table captain after eliminating an opponent within the first orbit.

BB is showing signs of being a maniac having lost a bunch of chips very early to a seemingly tight early position raiser, barreling all streets out of position after flopping a low pair.

My table image is perhaps a little too tight compared to the rest of the field. Up to this point I had won 3 pots, all at showdown with AKo, QQ and A8s which was blind vs blind. In addition to this I had shown that I was playing a patient small ball type game.

Full Tilt Poker $1 + $0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 8 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP2: t1320 M = 14.67
CO: t2345 M = 26.06
BTN: t920 M = 10.22
Hero (SB): t1560 M = 17.33
BB: t1495 M = 16.61
UTG: t1495 M = 16.61
UTG+1: t1115 M = 12.39
Villian: t3250 M = 36.11

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is SB with K Q
2 folds, MP1 raises to t120, 3 folds, Hero calls t90, BB calls t60

Flop: (t360) K 9 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t360, MP1 raises to t900, Hero raises to t1440 all in, BB folds, MP1 calls t540

Turn: (t3600) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t3600) T (2 players - 1 is all in)


Given the all of this information was the villain correct to call my 3bet shove or can a case be made towards folding?

[zecasaralegu]

Originally Posted by Jaxit

The hand below took place early on during a 9-man $1 STT on FTP (Hand 21) and I had gained the following information leading up to it:

The table dynamic is quite tight preflop with an average of 3 players seeing the flop. Most hands however are going to showdown as you would expect at this stake and this early in proceedings.

The villain is playing noticeably loose-aggressive and has assumed the role of table captain after eliminating an opponent within the first orbit.

BB is showing signs of being a maniac having lost a bunch of chips very early to a seemingly tight early position raiser, barreling all streets out of position after flopping a low pair.

My table image is perhaps a little too tight compared to the rest of the field. Up to this point I had won 3 pots, all at showdown with AKo, QQ and A8s which was blind vs blind. In addition to this I had shown that I was playing a patient small ball type game.

Full Tilt Poker $1 + $0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 8 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP2: t1320 M = 14.67
CO: t2345 M = 26.06
BTN: t920 M = 10.22
Hero (SB): t1560 M = 17.33
BB: t1495 M = 16.61
UTG: t1495 M = 16.61
UTG+1: t1115 M = 12.39
Villian: t3250 M = 36.11

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is SB with K Q
2 folds, MP1 raises to t120, 3 folds, Hero calls t90, BB calls t60

Flop: (t360) K 9 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t360, MP1 raises to t900, Hero raises to t1440 all in, BB folds, MP1 calls t540

Turn: (t3600) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t3600) T (2 players - 1 is all in)


Given the all of this information was the villain correct to call my 3bet shove or can a case be made towards folding?

your flop 3bet shove is ok, your preflop is bad, just fold you are Out of position and playing a very difficult hand to play OOP against two players. Also, 3 players seeing the flop per hand with a maniac and a loose aggressive player is not a tight table

GL