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OESD wp? OESD wp?

02-18-2017 , 05:06 AM
Hi, 3.5$ 6max. Did I play it well? I got the right odds to call on every street but somehow I feel that it is not right play....villains are unknown 33/0 after 12 hands and 72/25 30 hands






    Poker Stars, $3.19 Buy-in (10/20 blinds, 3 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37642018

    UTG: 1,559 (78 bb)
    MP: 1,271 (63.6 bb)
    CO: 1,318 (65.9 bb)
    BTN: 1,950 (97.5 bb)
    Hero (SB): 1,411 (70.6 bb)
    BB: 1,491 (74.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with J A
    UTG folds, MP raises to 40, 2 folds, Hero raises to 120, BB calls 100, MP calls 80

    Flop: (378) Q T 8 (3 players)
    Hero bets 180, BB raises to 527, MP calls 527, Hero calls 347

    Turn: (1,959) 7 (3 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets 841 and is all-in, MP calls 621 and is all-in, Hero calls 761 and is all-in

    River: (4,102) J (3 players, 3 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 4,102 pot
    Final Board: Q T 8 7 J
    MP showed K J and lost (-1,271 net)
    Hero showed J A and lost (-1,411 net)
    BB showed A Q and won 4,102 (2,691 net)



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    OESD wp? Quote
    02-18-2017 , 10:13 AM
    I wouldn't have lead the flop with an inside straight drawn into two players. The board texture hits both your opponents ranges and most players at micro wouldn't fold any pair on the flop.

    I would certainly not call a 3 bet and a call on the flop. j9 is easily in both players range and you could be easily dominated. You don't have enough equity to call.

    Small stake players are calling stations who are tough to get off even one pair. You'll find more value at this level just waiting for good hands and going for thin value.
    OESD wp? Quote
    02-18-2017 , 11:08 AM
    I agree with murstyle15. In this example I'm check/folding (maybe check/calling) the flop.

    My approach to these games is extremely straightforward and (I'm guessing higher-than-microstakes players would say) somewhat weak, but I think it's pretty good against villains you find at these stakes.

    The thing is, neither of these opponents is folding if they catch a piece of the flop. And neither of these opponents is aggressive without a hand. Birds fly, fish swim and extremely passive players have it when they are aggressive. I've lost many pots before getting this through my head.

    Both the Q and the T are troublesome cards and neither of these opponents is folding if they have Qx/Tx.

    You could perhaps make an argument for betting the flop if you think they always fold if they miss completely, but I wouldn't call the raise and continue with the hand, I'd just look for better spots.

    To be on the safe side, I wouldn't count jacks as outs, so you have the 3 aces + 4 kings = 7 outs.

    You have to call 347 for a pot of 1612 on the flop, so you're getting 1:4.6 on your money.

    You have 7 outs out of the remaining 47 (1:5.7).

    I think it's close and would like to hear the opinion of more experienced players because I can see implied odds (stacking both of them) and the backdoor nut flush draw being reasons for continuing.

    I'm too much of a straightforward nit myself. I'd let both of them battle it out (they both say they like their hands a lot on the flop) and look for a better spot.

    Last edited by mrrnnn; 02-18-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    OESD wp? Quote
    02-18-2017 , 12:09 PM
    This isn't part of my 3bet range in sb at this stage of an sng. As a general rule I would try to avoid playing a huge multiway pot oop with a draw in the early stages.
    As played I prefer check calling otf as you can pot control on a wet board. I think you have almost no fold equity when you lead out. As you noted you are getting the correct price otf and turn but gii in with a draw in the first blind level is unfortunate.
    OESD wp? Quote
    02-18-2017 , 12:43 PM
    Disregard my previous post ... Stupid enough to not notice it's an open-ended straight draw, even though that's what the title says.

    My bad.
    OESD wp? Quote
    02-18-2017 , 01:13 PM
    If you're going to raise this preflop then the raise needs to be larger.
    If we ignore BB for the moment (assume he folded) , MP then has to call 80 into a pot of 180, so gets better than 2:1 while IP. As played he's getting 3.5:1

    BB flats your 3bet, then 3bets you on the flop so he's representing top pair or better.

    We can't overlook the 9s as outs - so i'd say you have 8 clean outs for a str8 plus maybe 3 Aces for an overpair. With 8 outs you'll hit the str8 ~30% of the time by the river.

    I might try to see the turn as cheaply as possible, but I'm not a fan of chasing draws. Street by street it can always look as if you're getting the right odds to call but that can be deceptive.



    Overall, I'm leaning to completing pre, then check/calling or check/folding the flop.
    OESD wp? Quote
    02-20-2017 , 02:50 PM
    Technically this is called a double-gutshot rather than an OESD, though the number of outs is the same.

    I agree the c-bet looks ambitious given the texture and the 3-wayness, even with about 8 outs on average (the A overcard is frequently no good because it makes someone 2-pair or a straight, or because someone already has a better hand - note that when the cards are eventually shown down this time it turns out we had 3 outs total). Better to check-call flop and leave more chips behind for better implied odds.

    As played you have to call all these bets as you clearly have close to direct pot odds on the flop and easily direct pot odds on the turn.

    I pretty much never flat out of the SB. You could go a touch bigger with the 3-bet though. I tend to go 3x and add one SB if OOP like this.
    OESD wp? Quote

          
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