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Old 08-14-2008, 11:10 PM   #1
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HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Does anyone know whether the Nash Charts from Holdem Resources (I think they are the same as the ones in Mathmetatics of Poker) are in SB or BB?

Here is the link. I can't seem to find the answer from the site. I am thinking it is SB because it goes to 20+ not 10+. If it is BB then it is much looser than SAGE.

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/hune.html

Also, does anyone have any advice on when to use this vs SAGE?

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Old 08-14-2008, 11:12 PM   #2
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

the calling chart is from BB, the pushing chart is from SB
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:23 PM   #3
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

The numbers are in terms of big blinds.

I never really looked into sage because it is probably just a less accurate version of the nash charts.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:23 PM   #4
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

They are in BBs. The true NE solution is looser than SAGE too (the point counting system causes a certain amount of rounding and tends to overvalue high-card strength).

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Old 08-15-2008, 12:18 PM   #5
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

So when do you guys tend to use Nash VS SAGE? I never really think of playing jam fold for 20+ BB. Should I just use nash when I get HU and blinds are relatively small? Should I just be looking to out play people until the 10BB effective stacks area?

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Old 08-15-2008, 01:06 PM   #6
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Quote:
Originally Posted by +EV View Post
So when do you guys tend to use Nash VS SAGE? I never really think of playing jam fold for 20+ BB. Should I just use nash when I get HU and blinds are relatively small? Should I just be looking to out play people until the 10BB effective stacks area?

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I would say yes. People play so bad hu that sticking a big-ish stack in hu vs a donk with a hand that can be 40 or 30%, while 'unexploitable' or '+ev' wont maximize your chance of shipping the win
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:32 PM   #7
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Just found this old thread, and I had a question about the Nash Charts for pushing (see OP link). It says that I can shove 89o for 20 bbs+, which when I look at it in SNGWiz is not true. I've got all the settings in Wiz right, but still I have to be around 6.5 bbs to be able to shove it unexploitably. What is wrong?
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:18 PM   #8
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

The nash solution does not tell you which hands are unexploitable to push. It gives you a range that is unexploitable. If your opponent knows you have 89o he can exploit you; but he doesn't.

There may alse be a difference because Wiz uses different opponent ranges than most other things seem to.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:59 PM   #9
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Sage is just a shorthand for getting an approx. of nash equilibrium.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:04 PM   #10
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

I think most people use Nash...and I'm almost never shoving more than 15bb...unsuited Ax is about the only range I'm shoving for 17-18bb...everything else you should be able to get more value by raising 2-3x
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:15 PM   #11
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Against regs I normally just play nash up to at least 15BB unless I know a specific way to exploit them and depending on how many tables I'm still playing.

Against others I think it's losing value playing nash at all most of the time, and more so with more than 10BB as you are losing value both in each hand and losing future fold equity for when you get shorter.


With 20BBs and 98o, you can see to some extent that wiz agrees with this if you try and match the calling range of BB in wizard with that you would have with 20BBs from the nash call chart. You can't quite do this because of the fixed hand ranges in wizard, but if you put in 25% the range covers all hands in the calling range from the chart, and gives an approximately break even result. If you could take the Ax hands out of the range in wizard that shouldn't be included 98o would show to be +EV.

I wouldn't shove 98o with 20BB though as stated above.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:46 AM   #12
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Just a quick question.

What does the following mean:
Quote:
* 63s: 7.1-5.1, 2.3
** 53s: 12.9-3.8, 2.4
*** 43s: 10.0-4.9, 2.2
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:50 PM   #13
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

You can push 63s for 2.3bb or less, and also from 5.1 to 7.1 bb.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:59 PM   #14
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

That chart is amazing! I am 7-for-7 strictly following the Nash equilibrium chart in Heads Up scenarios. 4 high stakes S&G's (6-handed and 9-handed) and 3 donkament final table HU. Never finished 2nd. The old me probably would have folded some of these hands like a pu**y, even tho I sucked out it didn't matter. The old me would probably check his BB with a hand like KJ and give away position and value in case top pair hits.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:34 AM   #15
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Re: HU Nash equilibrium charts question

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeadbellyDan View Post
The nash solution does not tell you which hands are unexploitable to push. It gives you a range that is unexploitable. If your opponent knows you have 89o he can exploit you; but he doesn't.

There may alse be a difference because Wiz uses different opponent ranges than most other things seem to.
this is wrong. you always ship a range so what is this for stupid argument
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