okay I know there's a bit of a theme here with all the limp pots, but I learn better when I focus on one area of my game.

PokerStars - $3.19+$0.31|25/50 Ante 6 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: 2,397.00
MP+1: 903.00
CO: 2,462.00
Hero (BTN): 1,248.00
SB: 1,203.00
BB: 1,473.00
UTG: 4,738.00
UTG+1: 555.00

MP posts ante 6.00, MP+1 posts ante 6.00, CO posts ante 6.00, Hero posts ante 6.00, SB posts ante 6.00, BB posts ante 6.00, UTG posts ante 6.00, UTG+1 posts ante 6.00, SB posts SB 25.00, BB posts BB 50.00

Pre Flop: (123.00) Hero has A 2

fold, fold, MP calls 50.00, fold, CO calls 50.00, Hero calls 50.00, fold, BB checks

Flop: (273.00, 4 players) 9 2 9
BB checks, MP bets 100.00, CO calls 100.00, Hero calls 100.00, fold

Turn: (573.00, 3 players) T
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets 250.00, fold, CO calls 250.00

River: (1073.00, 2 players) A
CO checks, Hero bets 842.00 and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 1,073.00


shove, and fold are definitely options, too early in tourney to have meaningful stats on opponents but willing to bet they're fish so I'm alright trying to take a flop.

river bet seems thin, had to think CO would bet a 9 OTT and I thought I could rep a bluff and hopefully get a T or 33-88 to call.

looking at it fold flop is definitely an option too. This hand just wrinkles my brain

As played, I am folding flop, when CO calls I think we are beat here. And on the river I am checking it back because it is hard to get worse to call here, the only worse hands that can maybe call river are JJ, QQ, and KK and Tx but even these probably fold the river. Other than that you get can't value from much.

Let this be a lesson: raise preflop. Now you have no idea where you stand because you can't put them on accurate ranges.

Flop call is fine I suppose but I'm checking behind on the turn and taking the free card. It's going to be difficult to make much money on this hand even if you do hit.

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too short to raise pf, and even if we do we still can't really put them on accurate limp/c ranges.

something like limp/f>fold>shove>raise imo

OTT we're not really getting any worse hands to call (maybe QJ, KJ) or better hands to fold, so I can see why you would want to take a free card and might be the right play

25bb is plenty to put in a raise. You're on the button with a couple of limpers trying to see a cheap flop. Don't let them.

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the thing is I want to see a cheap flop. Say we have 22 here, would you still think we should raise? Are hand plays well multiway so why not see a flop multiway?

if we raise here the cheapest we could go is 5bb which is still ~20% of our stack. Flop an Ace and how are we going to play it, we've already over repped our hand.

FWIW when I do raise over limps I go with a very big sizing, something like 6-7bb because you just get too many limp calls. I just can't wrap my head around how a raise could be good here, maybe I'm wrong but that's why I've been posting these limp hands.

As a side note: I've heard an argument from some HU players, when you can't get opponents to fold with a raise, to just min raise then c-bets have a higher win rate. That's probably beyond the discussion of this thread and I don't really get it myself but it's some food for thought.

I used to think the same way but the best thing I've done to improve my game is up the aggression in spots like this. Remember, poker isn't just about playing your cards; in fact in a lot of situations your cards are irrelevant.

There is a big difference between A2s and 22, namely that flushes are far more obvious than sets so it is often harder to get paid off. A raise has several advantages: it builds a pot if you do hit your flush, it gives you the initiative in the hand with position, and it disguises your hand. Seeing a cheap flop shouldn't actually be your goal here.

So what? You can make a CB and take it down, or maybe check behind depending on the situation, or whatever. What are you worried about?




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I don't know if I raise A2s here. It's just we likely don't take it down and we have to put in like over 200 preflop if we did raise. I'm ok just being passive with a marginal hand oop.

Is this a turbo or non-turbo 45man? It actually affects my decision making somewhat and I used to play turbos a lot.

Personally I never like to risk too many chips early in turbos especially if I'm playing larger volume of games in a session. Losing chips now hurts our shove/fold strategy later when effective stacks are shorter, and that's a big part of turbo 45mans at least (or at least it was back when I was playing them).

I set very clean rules for this type of hand and stack combination before I sit down to play - either you are looking to limp and flop big or you are raising to isolate 1 player and take it down with a cbet when they miss ~60% of flops. Give up when they continue past flop unless I have 2 pair or better. The latter is better with fold to cbet stats.

The above isn't optimal but it keeps these spots clean and straightforward to play. In normal tournaments I'd take option 2, probably the same for non-turbo 45mans, then limp in turbos and try to hit big multiway. Often I won't fancy the limp play in a turbo (I hate being passive) and just save chips for the shove/fold stage. You get a little more time to recover in the non-turbo format.

Postflop - I agree with the fold on the flop. Very hard to know where we are at. At least 1 of them has to have something (right? bet air + call air?) and we only beat a few X2 combinations.

Turn bet is fine as we can try win the pot here or catch flush vs hands that currently beat us (T9 is the exception of course). Hard to put QJ into the MP flop betting range and the CO calling range but I wouldn't rule it out as fish do weird things. QcJc must surely love this turn and bet before we get to act so might be 1 combo we can ignore? Does a TX hand bet? I just think it's unlikely to see them take those flop actions with say JT...

Once I get called I'm done on river and check it back. Unlikely he has a 9. Hard to have a X2 hand and would he even call? All worse pairs and TX hands can't like calling all in on river when you've called flop, bet turn vs 2 players and then shoved river - if anything it looks like you have a 9. Can you bet 200-400 for value and get called? Possibly. KT, QT, JT, T8, 33-88 ... why would T8 call or bet flop?

Not willing to consider and change my strategy in case of a QQ/JJ limp pre either. Just don't think it happens enough and unlikely to play out flop and turn like this either.

That's about it really. Save yourself a lot of headache and decide which style to play preflop. Will make your life a lot easier.