what drugs do people at ftp have to be on to think up these idea's ????
its almost like stars has a retarded little brother

That was really LoL and true.
Full tilt read carefully the 4 things below.

Lower rake ,Add turbooooo 45s 180s, Fix you software, Stop buying drugs with our rake.
the only good addition till now are the super turbos. make that for the 45s 180s also and you will see them running like on stars.
(its nice that you have more blind levels than stars but make them 2-3min each otherwise dont call it turbo).

this

I think this is a pretty cool concept actually, but then again I'm not a SNG regular whom this could effect.

What people arent realizing about these is that they significantly reduce the rake paid.


Heres an example:

If you usually play the $55+5 turbos, you're paying $5 of rake in each sng you play. But if you play a $220+16 matrix, you're essentially playing 4 $55 sngs, paying a grand total of $16 in rake. So in essence, you're saving $1 in rake PER sng. That equates to an increase of 1.7% in your ROI, without doing anything.

I also kind of like the principle of the bonus 20% payout for the mini-leaderboard. I wont know for sure until I try these some more. But my thinking is that this extra 20% will favor the people who consistently place higher. Obviously if we're a winning player, were placing higher on average than others, but when you're playing a game of chip conservation early on where you have a lot of finishes 1 or 2 out of the money when you do not cash, that will consequently help you move up the leaderboard.

Yep, Pacific's autumn 2006 changes pretty much resulted in exactly this scenario... There was a funny thread on their own forums about it where they claimed that "they had altered the structures at the request of the players" which was followed by about 100+ posts complaining that getting a game going was almost impossible (even fish were complaining!) and not a single positive post... Predictably Pacific were too "pig headed" to change them back, but a quick check of Sharkscope quickly showed they had lost alot of their regulars because of it.

Juk

Wouldn't just reducing the rake be better - then they could boast that they have lower rakes than the other major sites and attract rake-minded players?

Oh I forget, the super-secret online poker "OPEC" outlaws competition based on rake...

Juk

So, for all of us on FTP, can we all agree to send in e-mails to get them to nix these games? To remove them, so we don't spread out the player pool? Obviously it's look dumb for them to take them away so quickly, but I just don't see the value in them because they're so gimmicky. "Win all four and make just as much as if you bought into and won a regular SNG!"

EDIT: Include arguments to reduce rake instead, as well.

Sadly, yes one gaytrix counts as 4 tables, which means if you are loading a set, you cant sit in a lobby unless you want 4 of your tables spoken for, or you cant register for one that is 8/9 unless you have 4 'free' slots

There's a lot more to that than one might think. There is a sort of cartel economics at play here.

I just had a thought that these might not actually be beatable. 4/5 of the expected value is the same, just from the individual table payouts, but I wonder if profitable play there is enough to make that last 1/5 so -EV that necessarily it offsets its it. It also might make a big difference 6-max vs. 9-max. It's going to take some further study, but if I decide these aren't beatable I think that's enough to have them removed immediately.

FTP has listened to my input in the past (color coded notes, adding new items to the iron man store, and banning dozens of cheaters) so it would be nice if they listened to me about this too - Tonight during peak hours there were a few running 100-300 which was really unfortunate

It is also BRUTAL that it takes 5 of your alloted games to sign up / wait in a lobby for one

I haven't played many, but I suspect the 1/5 set aside will usually be won by donks knocking each other out. You really get 3 points for a knockout (2 for doing it + 1 for being at the table), so quantity of KOs is the greatest factor in who wins overall. It seems crazy that you only get 2 extra points for winning.

On another note, I don't think it is a good idea to just play 4x your normal BI, because the average fish who normally single tables will not be looking at it that way, and you will face stiffer competition.

Also, rake is only cheaper at higher buyins. A 22+2 Matrix turbo is worse rake than 4 6.50s (24+2).

These things look like a horrible idea. FT being a 9 player per table site probably had a lot to do with them not offering Double or Nothing SNG's. Plus they probably wanted to innovate instead of copy. They did a lame job of it.

One thing I haven't seen many people pick up on is the mini leader board points for knocking players out. Believe it or not, points for knocking players out might not be a plus for skilled players. I play tight and don't splash chips around. I win money by finishing in the money not by running around trying to knock the most people out. There have been times I have finished in the money without knocking a single person out. And there have been many times I have come in first place and the only person I knocked out was the guy in second.

I concur, these are a horrible idea. Lowering variance for fish means they figure out faster that they are losing players. Bad for regs, bad for full tilt.

Here's my initial reaction:

That's what I posted on a different forum before checking out this thread. I stand by it. What's not to like about encouraging fish to multitable? Am I the only one here not thrilled by the challenge of playing the exact same players on 4 tables.

I would think people not thrilled about the format would be willing to give it a chance on the mere fact that the effective rake is greatly reduced. Full tilt is taking a big MGR hit per table. How the **** can that not be good for us?

QFT