cause unless you have played a lot of hands with villain your HEM stats won't be very accurate. In addition, it would probably be very hard for the Wiz to do

hehe If you are referring to me, lmao. If not I apol.

whats the correct range to push against those 2 giant stacks in a bubble spot?

hand2





the one who push was a reg

100%? They both want the bubble to continue, so their calling ranges must be pretty tight. Nash says 19.8% though, so I'm not sure.

so you had some time, anyone winning above 3% on 20+ at decent sample?

Since the Nash calculator is using the ICM function it's can't see any advantage to keeping the bubble alive (not sure if that's what you meant with your post - but basically the Nash ranges are irrelevant [and likely to be very wrong even for "experts" level players playing each other] here).

Juk

no money in 20+ everyone's solid.


i don't see any reason to stray too far from Nash. 55 is around the bottom of my range. a known rock in the bb might change my mind.

why?

Don't post results, we don't care about your results. you shouldn't either.


ICM Nash Calculator Results has villain pushing 44%, and us three betting with 8.7% (77+ A9s+ ATo+). there aren't too many $10 regs who i think are opening much wider here.

Because the ICM function is massively underestimating the extra equity the big-stacked players can get by keeping the bubble alive and pwning the other players... Therefore the NE will have them calling much wider than they would if they were to realize the advantage of keeping the bubble alive.

The failing is with the (limitations of) ICM function here and not the algorithm used to find the NE (just in the same was as putting duff ranges into SNGWiz will give you duff solutions).

Juk

ahahh i was just lazy to delete the results cuz i was in the middle of the session
but tnx for the help anyway...

First of, I'd like to thank Juk. In my brief time here, I have found his posts to be most helpful and correct and they have done much to deepen my understanding (esp on the topic being discussed here).

What he says here is no exception. Its provoked these thoughts that are probably obvious but may hopefully prove helpful

1)In a game such as Fifty/50s in which the antes are so significant I think it is very important to think of stacks in terms of M rather than BB.

2)There is a range of M where push/fold ICM is most useful

3)I've found that range to be roughly between 8 and 2(in other words,fairly shallow but not tiny stack sizes)

4)Above M of about 8 push/fold is rarely correct(risk too much to gain to little)

5)Below about 2 the considerations Juk cites limits its effectiveness.


P.S. Juk, feel better man. I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you are under the weather.

is it ok call vs (i know it 4 sure) 100% shoving range? J8o has ~51% equity, my thinking is i had ~2BI in equity, if i call and lose i will have ~1.5bi in equity and if i call and win ~2.7bi
plus maybe he will think next time when shoving atc, though i doubt that at 10$ poeple are able to adjust tbh

Yes, against 100% pushing range it is a very easy call. You can call with top 87% of hands.

If he were to adjust properly, villain should only be pushing about 50%(according to Nash eq) even then you could call with 64% and J8o is still an easy call.

Thanks - taken some Sudafed and Paracetamol and starting to feel a bit better now Avoided any flu/colds for about 2 1/2 years so can't complain really.

Juk

This makes perfect sense to me...if the tournament ended on this hand. But losing the hand and dropping to 1.5BI doesn't factor in that your chances of busting out are greatly increased (resulting in 0BI). So isn't the potential loss greater than 0.5BI?

in this sitauation when all fold sb push and bb can call with 22.6% http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...00&s7=&s8=&s9= is 22.6% not to much to risk easy 2.5BI prize?

Not sure if this is a mistake but I've started to experiment a bit with standard raises when my stack is in the 7-11BB range rather than open-shoving around the bubble. I think it's important in these to not put your stack on the line if you can avoid it and the smaller raise can often successfully steal you a pot without showdown and without risking your whole stack. I'll do the same thing with my big hands both to disguise my hand and because it can sometimes result in getting looser calls and taking down a bigger pot than if I had just open shoved.

Well in my sng noob opinion raise folding with 7xbb sounds pretty horrible. Assuming you are raising 2.5-3xbb. Also i find that you can pick up a of chips open shoving around the bubble just avoid stacks that can crush or cripple you. Also i would say one of the reasons these are so soft right now is because so many people are scared to put their chips in the middle. I see people raise fold all the time and leave 3 or less bbs behind. I just laugh and scratch my head.

+1 also a lots villians like to call to see flop even they are short, specially because they know they will get more money for more chips but they don't whant risk all chips without flop, of course a lot's of time both of you will miss flop but also lot's of time villians will hit something and will not fold and you don't have space to bet more times with 7-11 bb

is their anywhere that will let me upload say the last 20 hands of a 50/50 then post them in a thread on 2p2 for review?

I agree raise-folding with less than 10bb is terrible in a typical sng, but I don't think it is quite so terrible here. Maybe its because my experience is at 1.08 where play isn't nearly as tight as it might be higher up. Since stealing becomes so important in the mid\bubble stages of these, and villains have loose-ish calling ranges, I'd rather not put my stack on the line with a steal if I don't have to. Obviously it applies to steals when you don't want to get called, but then you have to play big hands the same way. And since people don't 3-bet and bluff lightly in these (especially late), there isn't much risk of someone perceiving your small raise as weakness and picking it off with a resteal or bluff stop-n-go.

Anyway, like I said just something I'm experimenting with.

No money in F50's, everyones solid

What stakes? Heard that 20s and up were pretty reg filled. 5s and 10s look very soft and you should be able to get a 5-10% ROI in those, meaning playing crazy tables yields a decent income