I would probably push there if there wasn't a shorty in sb...What you guys think?

I think to answer that you should post some new mythical "redistributed" hand and then it could be mathematically evaluated.

TT versus bully

No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 150/300 Blinds (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t2540)
CO (t400)
Button (t2990)
Hero (SB) (t1900)
BB (t3275)
UTG (t2760)
MP1 (t1135)

Hero's M: 4.22

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
2 folds, MP2 bets t2500, 2 folds,

Mp2 had been shoving 1 out of every 3 hands every since it got down to 7 handed so a call is corect?

yes i think so...would be curious to hear what range people like in this spot...AA-99, AK? or wider?

Yea whats the bare minimum that we can call with.

first, bully isn't the correct word. let me guess, this is the fourth time he's pushed in the past two rotations? he could easily have a very tight range and just be picking up some cards.

second, we're not exactly deserate, but we're a far cry from safe. we're going to be six handed shortly, and we'll be in second to last, sandwiched between two tall stacks. we are looking for a good spot.

anyway, i froze the big blind at an overcall with JJ+ and AK.

if villain is pushing 100%, we can call with 30%
if villain is pushing 50%, we can call with 12.2% (66+, A9o+, A7s+, KQ, KJs+)
if villain is pushing 33%, we can call with 77+ and AT+
if villain is pushing 15%, we can call with 99+ ak, and AQs
if villain is pushing 9.4%, we can call with JJ+ and AKs


Nash has him pushing 24%, and us calling with 88+, ATs, and AJ+


i would need tons of history to believe he's wider than 33%. i'd need a fair amount of history to believe he's wider than nash says he should be.

actually it was the 3rd time in the current rotation and the 5th time in the last 2

i ran the hand through a trial version of sng wiz and it says we can call 77+,ak,aqs

what ranges is that for? what's your edge? those numbers i posted were directly from wiz with 0 edge

Well first let me say i've only had sngwiz for a couple days. It said his open was 15+ and his call was 15+ I left the edge at default mainly because i don't know how to change it and i'm not sure what my edge is or if i even have an edge against this particular bloke. I would however like to think i edge against the field as folks regularly call off their chips with kq off in the first hand of the tourney. The dude in the hand in question however could be the best 50/50 player on earth for all i know. I just know he was very aggro which is correct play as far as i know. If it helps matters he had kj off in the hand in question

That's a lot of shoving. However, I'd actually give more credit to the last couple of shoves in a series than the first couple because most players are aware enough to realize that their shoves look less believable the more they do it over a short time period. Usually the first couple are steals and then the player actually picks up some hands and shoves, hoping someone will try to make a stand.

i don't know what settings you have, but i can't reproduce your results. which means you probably have something set really strange. here's a quick tutorial on what i do when i analyze a hand. it might not be the best way, but it's what i do. lmk if you need clarifications anywhere.

1) enter the hand as is into sngwiz. make sure the blinds are correct.
2) set Edge% to 0.00. i actually have this as the default, so i don't have to do this every time. some people swear by this. i just adjust the results after the fact if i feel i need to.
3) guess at what anyone acting behind me would call with. here, a healthy (and admittedly active, but not chip leading) stack pushed and a non desperate non safe stack called. that's not a scenario where i think the big blind would expand his overcall range, so i'm guessing a typical range would be very tight.
4) click on whoever is acting after me's "call%," in this case, just the big blind. you'll notice a popup. it has two sections, "Outcomes" and "Hand Grid." the outcomes section is a list of previous actions. the one highlighted should be "{villain pushed}, {hero Push}." with that section highlighted, go down to the hand grid and set their overcall range to what i think their overcall range should be (see #3).
5) any other options, in this case "Utg+2 raise to" are the times we don't play. this is important, too. set that to what you think the bb should be calling with if the pot is heads up vs villain. i'd use 10% here. you can use the model option if you want. i think those models are kind of worthless. just be sure that the overcall range and the call range are different unless you've got a reason for them not to be.
6) now i go to the villain. first thing i do is find out what my call range should be if he's pushing any two cards (ATC). to do that, click on open%, and set the number in the grid to 100.
6) then i choose some other open ranges for villain. typically, 33%, 20%, 10%, 5%. make note of your call ranges. if i am working with a given hand that is a clear call, i try to find an open range for villain tight enough that i need to fold. in this instance, villain needs to be opening tighter than (a9s+, ato+, and 66+) for a call to be incorrect, btw.
7) then i repeat 3-6 with varying ranges for other people in the hand, in this instance, i checked out what happend when big blind was overcalling with 10% and 25%, just to see. they both pare off some of the bottom end of our range, but nothing too dramatic.
8) if i ever get any shocking results, i switch players. let us say i want to explore what's going on from villain's perspective. i click on his cards and choose a hand. then i check things out from that end. again, playing with the ranges of everyone acting after me.
9) then i go to hold'em resources and find the nashequilibrium for the hand. it's nice to know what actually is "correct." here, "correct" means villain is pushing 24.4%, and we are calling 7.1%. check out what bb should be overcalling with: 77+ AQs+ AQo+. well, remember, the .6, .1, .1, .1, .1 payout is an approximation.


oh, lastly, knowing he had KJ changes nothing. it doesn't help us determine the lower bound, and really only tells us he must be at least loose enough to shove kjo.

If you are convinced that 'bully" is really pushing with his top 33% and that makes range something like 22+,Ax+,K2s+,K7o+,Q9s+,QTo,JTs then you call call with 88+,ATs+,AJo

I use the version that is embedded in hem. When i analyze a hand i just right click it and select analyze in sngwiz Then it tells me whether push or fold was the correct play. I'll open it again and see if i can find the stuff you are talking about.

URL=http://img860.imageshack.us

ok the above was meant to be an image of the sngwiz screen but something went wrong

ok i set my edge to 0

villain opens 15+ according to sng wiz I'm assuming sngwiz automatically imports stats from hem. The only player behind me calls 16+. Wiz says i should shove 77+,aq+,ajs+

it does not

Concerning your import to Nash from the Wiz, I hope you are aware of two points, one major and the other minor.

1) Using Wiz's fifty/50 structure gives you accurate results from the Wiz but gibberish for import to Nash. To get accurate Nash eq(via import from Wiz) you need to create your own 60.10,10,10,10 for Wiz to use and import those results to Nash.

2)minor point - 60,10,10,10,10 is not an approximatation it is totally mathematically eq to 20,20,20,20,20 using half$EV and half cEV(which is how I believe wiz's default built-in Fifty50 is calculated)

Still waiting for HEM and the redline would like to know my ev roi in the 20s as they are pretty regstacked

1) i don't do an import. didn't know that i could. i manually enter everything.
2) sweet.

i play mostly 1 table all the time,sometimes 2 how else could i be also reading this thread? although i cant see how its possible to be supernova doing that.

Well my only question is why the hell not

ok is their any way to get hem to filter for how many people are left in a tourney. Iwant to find villans pfr with 6 people left in a 50/50.

Yes. You can import anything 9(or less) handed. You can't if 10 players are still left. But again only if you create you own 60,10,10,10,10 structure in Wiz.