Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Tournament Poker > STT Strategy

Notices

STT Strategy Discussion about the play of single table tournaments.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2010, 04:32 AM   #1
adept
 
Raizin_Azian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: PM for Staking. Twitter@AzianPokerz
Posts: 780
Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

It's only my 553rd post, but I figured I'd share it the community that has given so much to me.

This post is geared more towards beginning players, so hopefully this will inspire some new members to strive to post 553 posts as well

RA


FEAR IN SNGs


“He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat.” -Napoleon Bonaparte




Being a bit of a history nerd, especially military history, I recently came across this quote from the infamous French general himself and was a bit taken aback to how applicable this quote is to SNGs.

One of the primary reasons people fail in SNGs is fear.

The major flaw in many players games is that they do not push/call correctly nearly enough in the mid and late game, usually out of fear of busting. I find this to be true not only in recreational players, but also in mass tabling so called “grinders”. These are break even players (that I affectionately call “Sh*t Nits”) that you will see registered in every SNG lobby, play their 7/5 stats, blind down to 3-4 bbs at t200; pick up KK and lose to (usually my ) 93s on the bubble and then berate in chat how bad you are and how good/unlucky they are. Truth is, if that villain had taken advantage of push/call spots that are available to every single player several times during every single SNG, then the epic showdown of KK vs 93s would have never occurred.

Most of the push/call spots these players are fearful to exploit are during the mid blind levels: t100-t200a25(PS)/t300(FTP) and mostly in late position or blind on blind confrontations.

Pushing wide SB vs BB and late position is par for the course for most experienced SNG players, but everyday we see people pass on fantastic spots to push because:

Arguement:
A) It’s thin +EV, I can wait for a better spot.
B) They might have a big hand!
C) What if the donkey sucks out on me?
D) What if they call me no matter what and I bust?



Rebuttal:
A) Small edges add up to a significant edge. Also adding up all of these small +EV spots can open the door for larger +EV spots later.
B) “If you always get it in good in SNGs, you’re not shoving enough” (Cannot find the thread or poster to give credit for that quote to, let me know.)
C) And?
D) So? What if you blind out and bust anyways? NEVER BLIND OUT (Folding contests are for dry cleaner conventions).

Pushing in good spots when they present themselves is what separates winners from ’those who do not win so much’ in SNGs. Not only are you picking up immediate chips and equity, but you also increase your ability to stay in the tournament if a few showdowns that don’t go your way as well as give yourself an opportunity to build a stack to exploit when the blinds get high (more on that later).

Calling (correctly) is probably the hardest thing that a SNG player has to learn. It was really eye opening, when I first started using SNG Wiz, finding out that some spots that I was folding (usually CO-BTN-SB shoves) were massively +EV calls when applying an accurate opponent shoving range. Determining the accurate range is the part that takes work.

Admittedly, it’s not easy to get in a habit of calling a shove with K8s, QTo, or 98s even when they know it’s massively +EV. Most are scared of running into the top of their opponents range, busting out, and looking like a fool for calling off 7 bbs with QTo when their opponent had QQ; even though their call was correct as the villain would have done the same with 52o as they did with their monsters. A problem I had early on was getting frustrated and angry when I would make a good call against a wide shove and the 52o would still beat my A7. This would make me scared to make a similar call the next time around.

Stop it. Stop being scared and have confidence in your decisions. That’s all you can do.

If you know your opponent is pushing on you with a wide range, find out what your +EV calling range play accordingly. Better yet- occasionally call wider. Not only will this make your opponent’s push -EV, but even a few spite calls will stick in the memory of an adept player for thousands of games. Memories that will make them think twice about shoving wide into/in front of you, thus passing on +EV spots for themselves (be prepared to adjust as they adjust). Instilling fear in your opponent is never a bad thing.

Players who don’t win ‘at the rate they think they should’ because they miss subtle, profitable spots in the mid game because of fear. Fear of running into a big hand, getting drawn out on, and busting from the tournament outside of the money.

This fear is magnified on the bubble.



Simple example:
Blinds 200/400
UTG 3000 – Fearful Recreational
BTN 3000 – Sh*t Nit
SB 3500 – Hero
BB 4000 – SNG Stud
Dealt to Hero: [32o]. 2 folds. Hero Folds.

Why?

Yes, this is a -EV push with everything over about a 13.5% BB calling range (0.00 Edge)
Yes, the BB is the only one who can bust you.
Yes, if you bust you will look stupid.
Yes, last time you pushed in this spot the BB had AA.
Yes, you’ve bubbled your last dozen SNGs.

Scaredy cat…

Playing devils advocate, yes- the BB is a good player and likely knows you should be shipping it wide here and will adjust his calling range accordingly. But how many GOOD players will realistically look down at 44 or A8o (bottom of the 13.5% range) and call off nearly all of their stack and equity? Few. Which makes this spot even more attractive.

Still many players would pass on this spot, walking the BB who now becomes the clear chip leader. Giving a competent reg a chip lead with high blinds and scared opponents is like giving a 15-year old girl your credit card at the Abercrombie outlet store. In both cases, THEY’LL run it up and it ultimately costs YOU in the end.

Cast your fear aside. Shove. Grab the chip lead yourself and reek havoc.

Being that there is no clear short stack, you have less equity to protect and are therefore risking less to go after the chip lead aggressively. Getting into a habit of going after the chip lead and accumulating on the bubble will go a long way to improving your ROI and Hourly Rate in the long run.

If you don’t deprive the BB of the chip lead on this hand and seize it yourself, generally the BB will grab up almost all the chips in play while you and the other two have a folding war trying to slither your way into 3rd place.

Man was not created to slither.

… If he calls you’ll make a wheel anyways.


History regards Napoleon as on of the greatest military minds to ever grace the battlefield. If he were alive today, I believe he would have the right mind set to also be great on the single-table virtual felt.

I’ll end this anecdote with a second quote from the diminutive general:

“Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.”

You may bust today, but to play SNGs in fear day in and day out is a fate worse than death.

Last edited by Beerocrat; 09-11-2010 at 12:27 PM. Reason: no blog promotion
Raizin_Azian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 04:46 AM   #2
old hand
 
mavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Shut Eye Country
Posts: 1,660
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

mavs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 04:54 AM   #3
grinder
 
stim1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Nice post, I always find myself hovering over the raise button whilst in LP and then I end up folding calling myself a coward whilst assuring myself a better spot will present itself. Sometimes that spot never turns up and I'm cursing myself for not making that K9 shove.

Thanks for the info. :-)
stim1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 05:53 AM   #4
Pooh-Bah
 
mckrogh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Don't chop off your balls
Posts: 4,358
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Really nice post RA! Should be excellent stuff for beginners!
mckrogh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 08:50 AM   #5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Doublez-Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Believing The Chapel Bell Will Ring
Posts: 6,888
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Nice, congrats on 553. Now where are the hot chix?
Doublez-Down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 09:55 AM   #6
grinder
 
Sokol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Playground
Posts: 537
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Great post RA!

[x] It’s thin +EV, I can wait for a better spot (or It"s pretty close so I"ll fold)

This is exactly what I"m questioning myself. Well.. I know the answer, but its damn tough to get rid of that naughty habit.

Its appropriate to quote Sun Tzu" here:
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack."
Sokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 11:25 AM   #7
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: over-thinking $5.50s
Posts: 18
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Great post, something I've struggled with too. Maybe I'll re-read this before my next set...
superowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 11:41 AM   #8
journeyman
 
richeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Great post every sng beginner should be taking this on board. I know my results improved when I started taking more opertunites to get my chips in.
richeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 11:42 AM   #9
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Amazing post, was tilting after some bad beats and playing passive and loose, reading this helped me get my head in the game doing great now!
Raambo20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 11:43 AM   #10
talks the talk
 
TeamTrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,439
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Nice post. Congrats RA on achieving this rarely remarked milestone

Thankfully the scaredy-cat phenomenon is not unique to SNGs, but is still extant in all formats.

Only took me a mere 15,000 games to begin to conquer the fear myself
TeamTrousers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 01:38 PM   #11
centurion
 
christophelp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Home
Posts: 198
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Great post. There can't be many/any beginners who haven't had this problem & who wouldn't benefit from reading this multiple times until it's really sunk in.
christophelp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 01:39 PM   #12
Pooh-Bah
 
KoreanBuffet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: BBT sucks
Posts: 4,172
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Really thought this was going to be a lol xpost of jennifear from p5's or sumfin sweet.
KoreanBuffet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 02:41 PM   #13
adept
 
GMINTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 945
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

OMG RA you are such a bad player for busting me the other day when i shoved KK UTG for 4bb t200 and you donk call 96o in the BB. I waited like 10 orbits for a decent playable hand and finally get KK and then you donk call and crack my KK. You are so bad!

O and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raizin_Azian View Post
B) “If you always get it in good in SNGs, you’re not shoving enough” (Cannot find the thread or poster to give credit for that quote to, let me know.)
Spacegravy IIRC.
GMINTZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 03:13 PM   #14
journeyman
 
Renseru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: TN
Posts: 233
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Very nice. You might get linked in the sticky thread.
Renseru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #15
grinder
 
breakingitdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 413
Re: Fear in SNGs - tl;dr

Great post op, I needed that ;-)
breakingitdown is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive