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Old 04-04-2008, 02:17 AM   #1
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do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

was thinking of memorizing this after john little suggested it in his video. are sng power tools better than this chart?

really have to open up my push/fold as i am breakeven over the last 2500 games at the 27's


http://www2.decf.berkeley.edu/~chubukov/rankings.html
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:35 AM   #2
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

first move down to the 16s. second, memorizing a chart isn't going to help much. there's too many different situations.
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Old 04-04-2008, 04:51 AM   #3
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

eh...it's a good starting place to get an idea of ranges, but finding them in game is a more organic process.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:26 AM   #4
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Well what do you mean is it better than using SNGPT?

I'm sure this chart was derived from SNGPT to be honest.

There is a lot more to SNGPT than the default stuff they put in the tutorial, you can use the program to make your own charts based on varying situations during gameplay. I made a bunch of my own charts at first, but it wasn't so much memorizing them that helped me, but rather the idea behind them and how they were made. You really start to understand how ranges fare against each other pretty fast after working with it for more than a few hours.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:21 AM   #5
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenm1267 View Post
was thinking of memorizing this after john little suggested it in his video. are sng power tools better than this chart?

really have to open up my push/fold as i am breakeven over the last 2500 games at the 27's


http://www2.decf.berkeley.edu/~chubukov/rankings.html
If you don't know how to use the chart, and don't realize how and when it applies, and how it should fit in with ICM then you need to ditch the chart, drop down in stakes (probably to the $6.50's) and retool your game.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:27 AM   #6
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

This looks like trash, berkeley sucks, and SngWiz looks prettier.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:07 AM   #7
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lipo Fund View Post
I'm sure this chart was derived from SNGPT to be honest.
That chart has been around a lot longer than SNGPT, and is in fact a critical part of both SNGPT and SNG Wizard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreanBuffet View Post
This looks like trash, berkeley sucks, and SngWiz looks prettier.
No, you suck.


OP: Understanding what is on that chart and how it is derived is way better than memorizing it. There's some good information in there, but knowing the relative S-C rankings of J4o and 53s aren't going to help your day-to-day game.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:26 AM   #8
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

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Originally Posted by KoreanBuffet View Post
This looks like trash, berkeley sucks, and SngWiz looks prettier.
Berkeley owns, you suck, and S-C is just another tool to be applied when ICM isn't a factor (which it always is in a STT (until HU), so modify the rankings accordingly). Personally, SNGWIZ and SNGPT are much more useful tools for me in a STT. Use S-C for MTTs if you must.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:43 PM   #9
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

What John Little video?
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #10
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Everyone used to know all this stuff.

I should teach a class on all this. ICM, Carlson/Sklansky, SNGPT, SNGWizard, Nash Equilibrium.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:21 PM   #11
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Everyone used to know all this stuff.

I should teach a class on all this. ICM, Carlson/Sklansky, SNGPT, SNGWizard, Nash Equilibrium.

That would be great microbet. Anything to help me understand and learn to use ICM would be a great help.

I am currently reading colin's book and its starting to make sense but, learning to actually use and manipulate ICM would be great.

I am learning each day but, as of today still cant effectively use I C M software.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:15 PM   #12
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

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Originally Posted by Ashy Knuckles View Post
That would be great microbet. Anything to help me understand and learn to use ICM would be a great help.

I am currently reading colin's book and its starting to make sense but, learning to actually use and manipulate ICM would be great.

I am learning each day but, as of today still cant effectively use I C M software.
Moshman's book is pretty worthless for ICM. DL SNGWIZ, play with it, and read the tutorials on the author's site. If you were to seriously put like 5 hrs a day for 2 weeks into sngwiz, you'd be able to probably beat thru the 27s by folding until you had < 10 BBs and then going into push/fold mode.
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #13
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheeseMoney View Post
Moshman's book is pretty worthless for ICM. DL SNGWIZ, play with it, and read the tutorials on the author's site. If you were to seriously put like 5 hrs a day for 2 weeks into sngwiz, you'd be able to probably beat thru the 27s by folding until you had < 10 BBs and then going into push/fold mode.
I highly doubt he could beat the 27's by folding until he had 10 bbs.
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:16 PM   #14
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

Well, maybe Moshman couldn't, but I'm pretty sure I could.
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:29 PM   #15
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Re: do a lot of people use this chart for push/fold

What roi over what sample size are you even beating them now.
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