Early in a 9seat, regular speed, SnG. I dont have much information about my opponents yet. How do you think I should play JJ here?

This is pretty much impossible to say without some further info. It's the third level and you seem to be using HM, so you should at least have 20-25 hands on villains.

Unless I have some info that MP1 is r/c fairly wide pre my standard play would be to flat pre. As played I probably fold flop, but even some lolsamplesize vpip/pfr info on BB that might easily change that.

I would flat pre, were getting it in here everytime.

^ J00hnyDeeee.

Yup, flat the first time is good vs most player types and we're not folding now as played.

Why do you think flatting pre is the best move?

My thoughts was that JJ is strong enough to be played preflop at this stage. Because I wanted to limit the field, take the lead, define my opponents hands and make my opponents with two high cards pay if they want to chase a hand that can beat me, I reraised MP1. Overcards to my pair will hit about half the time and make playing postflop more difficult, so I wouldnt mind winning the hand preflop either.

With just low cards hitting on the flop I think Im still in the lead. I think bigger pairs than mine would have raised me all in preflop. Its also unlikely that my opponents have two pairs or a straight, because I think they would have folded that kind of hands to my raise preflop. The only hands Im scared about is a set, but I think hands like AK, AQ, AJ or KQ are much more likely hands. When BB bets I think its likely to be a steal/semibluff because the flop is so low that he thinks its likely that we missed our hands

Pre is villain dependent, flop shove 100%, no reason to flat imho.

Because 3b/f and 3b/c are both worse than calling against reasonable ranges. If he's terrible wide, 3b/c is fine.

But most of the times we will either get a fold or a call from the other, so I dont think we will have to worry som much about what we do if we get reraised preflop. 3b/f and 3b/c (we could already be beat) would both be bad, but I dont think these scenarios would happen too often.

Flatting pre is good, because it keeps his range wide / invites other behind to flat call or reraise hands we crush. You don't want to take literal 50/50 flips early on in a sng. JJ vs 88/AQ we are a 53% fav, literal 50/50 vs 99 AQs AK, if we make his range TT AK or TT AQs AK now we are a 46%ish dog. Your giant 3bet sizing all but guarantees villain will get it in a range like one of those unless he is a total idiot. However once you make it so big, we do need to get it in unless his range is JJ/AK only or tighter.

Your 3bet sizing is quite terrible btw, now this guy did anyway, but vs most people you give them no chance to flat call a dumb hand or have perceived fold equity to make some idiot shove. Making it ~250 is SO much better than 375

Also as a general note 3bet/folding strong value hands usually ends up being a pretty bad idea especially when it's for a lot of your stack. In situations where villain flat calls a ton of dumb hands to the 3bet, but only 4bets a super tight range than I think it can be acceptable

That was some weird logic. Flatting to keep Mp1 range wide? He has already put the chips in the pot. His range for putting dose chips in the pot doesnt get any wider or tighter based on what I do.

And this coinflipthings you talk about is just absurd. If we tighten their range, their cards wouldnt actually change, you know. It just means that they are folding more so I will win the pot more often uncontested, or playing the hand against fewer opponents, which will make playing postflop easier.

And why on earth would it as a general rule be a bad thing taking coinflips early? What is a general rule is that its a bad idea to take coinflips early if youre getting 1-1 odds. But if the odds are 2-1, like in your example, it is hugely positive ICM$EV.

Almost worthy to just reply with move up to $15+

#swag

seriously though these guys are trying to help you.. sortof. And they are right too. If you 3b make it alot smaller.

jesus man do you really think I mean that if we 3bet his initial range of cards is somehow magically changed to a tighter range? lmao

When you 3bet someone their range for calling your raise/4betting you is not their entire opening range...hence by flatting we are keeping his range wide

Yes getting it in is good vs some of those ranges after your 3bet and I also never said we should or shouldn't get it in vs this guy. I am merely making a point. I would guess (don't play 9m much anymore) make it 375 calling vs TT AK AQs is a fairly +ev but it's not huge, you really need 99 to be in his range for it to be signifcantly +ev. If his range is TT AK for getting it in it's just bleh. Most people just don't open wide in early pos and I think a lot of reasonable opponents (not a reg, just some tightish or semi sane random) opens utg1 and and we 3bet big utg2 even a lot of these mediocre guys fold hands like 99/AQ. Even then you have to say ok I'm getting it in vs TT AQs AK that's +ev, but is it more +ev to flat?

Absolutely snap jam over this flop bet.

Fwiw I would (depending I opponent) 3bt smaller pre or sometimes flat.

Early stages 9man u need to be 54-56% favourite to get it in pre due to ICM tax.Plus if u are a better then the other players add 2-3% edge factor and its like 57_59%.
Def flat JJ

Hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi

I think that the jam is the lower variance play OTF, but we are so close to having the villain committed here. Is there anyway to invite those chips over to us OTF? I was thinking minraise at first, but that would not put us anywhere close to looking like we have fold equity. Any thoughts?

If we flat pre, we will have more room to maneuver post. Villain will most likely lead out in that scenario, too, and we may be able to entice his whole stack to go in on this flop. In my mind, a minraise OTF in a non 3bet pot may induce a jam...blah, blah, blah.

I realize this thread is almost on flame control now, but I would be interested in thoughts on this. I found ikillfatboys posts helpful, and I think the OP should try to read them with a different mindset. If we are not trying to get help, perhaps another forum would be the proper place to post.. like BBV or something.

" Because 3b/f and 3b/c are both worse than calling against reasonable ranges. If he's terrible wide, 3b/c is fine." -Leakssuck (or something)
+1

I agree that flatting pre may give us a better chance of getting a lot of money in the pot on the flop, but Im not sure if thats necessarly is our goal since we have a hand wich is quite small multiway with a lot of action postflop.

An example: If you flat pre and the get two more callers, so its a 4-way pot, and the flop comes something like K78, what should we do if someone shows strength? Remember that with JJ you will se an overcard on the flop about 60 % of the time, and I think that in a multiway pot that will make us lay down the hand. Bt if we reraise preflop I think that we both can win a decent pot right there, or we can narrow the field and take the lead preflop which will give us a good chance of taking the pot on the flop even if an overcard hits.

I am trying to get help, and maybe flatting is right. But if this should help me I have to know why flatting is better than reraising here. Do you think JJ is preforming better multiway? What should we do if an overcard hits? What should our goals be when dealt JJ? Try to win a small pot? Try to hit a set? Try to play slow and hope for action an a big pot?

No. But that statement is just way to broad.

Play poker.

The same as with every hand you are being dealt. Which is making $$$. Or playing the hand the best way you can, given the situation.

With the 4th best hand in poker?

You dont need to hit a set when you have the argueably 4th best hand in poker. Ofc, we dont mind if we do.

You try to maximise your winnings where possible, while minimizing loses whereever possible.

4th best hand in poker? JJ is extremely far from being the 4th best hand in poker. Its the 4th best hole cards, but that does not make it a strong showdown hand. If a Q hits, even Q2 have us beat, then it doesnt help much that we had the 4th best preflop hand. You say I should "play poker" if an overcard hits. My question is really how you suggest I should do that?

Jam pre, poker is hard

I'm 3betting all day pre also... take out the other players and know what I'm dealing with post flop. I'm also snap calling post flop in this situation. 10's and under pairs I'm just calling pre.