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[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges [6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges

02-19-2017 , 02:06 PM
I used to grind MTTs back in 2010-2013 in college. I graduated, quit the game for a "real job". Due to my work and family schedule I don't have the solid 10-14 hour time blocks needed to grind MTTs anymore, however I do have time to play Hypers for a few hours here and there.

I've been out of the game for years, and am very math oriented (every poker decision can be solved by math if you have the correct variables). I've developed a few charts for SB, BTN, and CO shoving, raise calling, and raise folding ranges.

I am assuming that in these situations the villain is an unknown micro-low stakes player. Obviously ranges are not static and need to be adjusted for opponents. I am attempting to build base / default ranges and then adjust.

I am also assuming that villains are not inducing at 10-15BB stack sizes. What I mean by this is I do not think a villain on the button is going to be raise/calling JJ, I think at micros they will be open shoving those for 12.5BB. Therefore the BB Calling ranges are calculated by including hands like AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 A9s ATo (hands I would be inducing vs an aggressive opponent). If it is discovered that people do have a raise/call range at 10-15BB that includes premium holdings then I will remove the premium holdings from villains shoving range which would allow us to call wider to reach the amount of equity required.

In the charts at 10-15BB the shoving range is the range I would shove, the hands I would raise/call at this stack size (inducing) is listed in a seperate chart. The BB Calling Range at 10-15BB is the range required to call assuming the villian is shoving the same range I am as well as shoving all premiums (hands i would be inducing).

Equity Needed Calculations: Very simple: Example at 10BB range (1BB for big Blind + 0.5 BB for small blind+ 10BB shove from villain = 11.5BB in the pot. If we're in the BB we need to call 10BB to win the 11.5BB already in the pot plus our 10BB bet back (21.5BB total) 10BB/21.5BB=0.465 or 46.5%. This means that our calling range needs to have 46.5% Equity vs our opponents shoving range. Remember, the BB Calling Range for the 10-15BB stack sizes is assuming opponent does NOT have a raise/calling(inducing range)

Since I have a Raise/Call Range at 10-15BB I wanted to make sure I had a Raise/Folding range as well. Let's take the BTN Raise/Call Range and Raise Fold Range as an example. I balanced by hand combos so I would be raise/calling and raise/folding the same amount of time.

99+ ATs+ AJo+ is my BTN Raise/Call Range at 15BB. There are 88 combos of these holdings. What I did was come up with hands that were outside of my shoving range and my raisec/call range. I came up with: K8o Q8o Q9o T8s -T7s, 96s - 98s, 85s -87s, 75s-76s, 65s-64s, 54s; these hands add up to 88 combos.

Let me know what you think. At first glance I think these ranges might be too tight. I've been out of the game for a while and am not sure how loose/tight people are calling/folding.



[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
02-20-2017 , 03:01 PM
Honestly, I have no idea. I'm a beginner trying to learn the ropes and am still dealing with the very basics. However, if you are serious, I do recommend buying icmizer.

Every person is different but for me, charts seem dry and I'd have a more difficult time trying to learn by making my own charts and committing them to memory than I would by just interacting (playing around really, it's fun) with a program like icimizer. The quiz is great and playing around with the different stack sizes/positions/villain ranges/players left is just awesome. Make a minor change to one of the factors and watch the whole "picture" change then try to figure out the reasons behind it.

Also, if you do feel like playing a MTT every now and then, I'd assume it's great for that as well. It has all of the popular MTTs on the big sites built in already so you can really use it efficiently to analyze your push/fold spots there as well.

Perhaps you have enough knowledge from your previous endeavor with MTTs that you know what suits you best and would prefer to stick to charts. I can't help you there really, I'm too inexperienced. I can't really put all of the hands you listed in my mind in any meaningful order and am just lost by reading the text, but that's probably normal for a newbie. Anyhow, one thing I did notice where I definitely disagree and think you have a -EV assumption:

I am also assuming that villains are not inducing at 10-15BB stack sizes. What I mean by this is I do not think a villain on the button is going to be raise/calling JJ, I think at micros they will be open shoving those for 12.5BB.

Why would you assume this? This goes contrary to the fish (= the unknown micro-low stakes player) impulse. The fish impulse is to play "tricky". Also in the mind of the fish, 12.5bb is a lot! (They could care less about blinds, they measure stacks subjectively in chips, and, let's say 1250 chips is a lot.) At least in the games I play in fish commonly minraise premiums even from early positions and even when the blinds are small (but that's no problem you see, they're trapping! They want to get 5 callers).

I can't imagine the majority of bad players actually ripping JJ+ from the button with that many chips left if it's folded to them. Limping and raising (either min, 2.5x, 3x or more) seem much more plausible to me.

Best of luck with your SNG endeavor.

Last edited by mrrnnn; 02-20-2017 at 03:09 PM.
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
02-20-2017 , 03:46 PM
You're a chunker.
You need to be a splitter.
To use the same ranges @ 10bb as @ 5BB is just total spew.
For your own benefit - figure out and then post, how much equity do you need to call a 5bb jam, and how much to call a 10 bb jam from BTN?
Then, assume a 30% jam range for 10bb, and a 40% jam range for 5 bb, and tell me how much equity 22, A2o & K9s for the BB has v each jam range.

I like your work ethic, delve deeper, and stay curious - it'll take you far.
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
02-22-2017 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin252
You're a chunker.
You need to be a splitter.
To use the same ranges @ 10bb as @ 5BB is just total spew.
For your own benefit - figure out and then post, how much equity do you need to call a 5bb jam, and how much to call a 10 bb jam from BTN?
Then, assume a 30% jam range for 10bb, and a 40% jam range for 5 bb, and tell me how much equity 22, A2o & K9s for the BB has v each jam range.

I like your work ethic, delve deeper, and stay curious - it'll take you far.
This is great advice. Like I said, I've been out of the game for a while. Coming from MTTs, I'm used to grouping hands into ranges of 20-25 BB 25-30BB 30-40 BB etc. It makes sense that when we get so short we should be evaluating 5BB and 10BB differently.

To call a 5BB jam when we're in the BB let's figure out the equity needed.

1BB from BB
0.5BB from SB
5BB from button Jam

Thats 6.5 BB in the pot Total

If we call the 5BB there will be 6.5BB + 5BB in the pot, so total of 11.5BB

This means we have to call 5BB to win 11.5BB
5/11=0.434 or 43%

So we would need 43% Equity.

If we're assuming top 40% of hands jam 5BB on the BTN and we use PokerStove's top 40% that gives our opponent a 5BB BTN jam range of: 44+,A2s+,K2s+,Q4s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A3o+,K7o+,Q8 o+,J8o+,T9o

22 has 46.6% Equity vs this range
A2o has 46.6% Equity vs this range
K9s has 49.6% Equity vs this range

Moving on to the 10BB Example.

Math: 1BB+0.5BB+10BB= 11.5BB in the pot
10BB to call means 21.5BB in the pot
10/21.5= 0.465 or 46.5% Equity

Assuming top 30% of hands
: 55+,A2s+,K5s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A7o+,A5o,K9o+,Q9o +,J9o+,T9o

22 has 45.5% Equity
A2o has 44.4% Equity
K9s 46.5% Equity

So in the 10BB Example only K9s is a call

---

So to develop a calling range we would need to find all the hands that have at least 46.5% Equity vs the range. Do you know of any programs that I can input a range and it will highlight all the hands that have the required equity? As of now I'm just going 1 by 1 in Poker Stove. It seems tedious

Last edited by jcallowaylife; 02-22-2017 at 11:19 PM.
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
02-23-2017 , 01:18 PM
I switched to 5 dollar hypers about 4 months ago and have been able to grind a 10% edge after rake for just over a thousand tourneys. I switched due to time restraints as well.

I wouldn't recommend coming up with charts and ranges to determine a GTO approach. Especially since ICM plays a huge role in these tourneys. I would recommend playing exploitative depending on other player tendencies.

For Heads up though i do use the Nash Charts which do seem to work really well. Typically when these tourneys go heads up the effective stack is 7-9 BBs and the chart works well at that range. http://www.holdemresources.net/h/poker-theory/hune.html
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
02-23-2017 , 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by murstyle15
I switched to 5 dollar hypers about 4 months ago and have been able to grind a 10% edge after rake for just over a thousand tourneys. I switched due to time restraints as well.

I wouldn't recommend coming up with charts and ranges to determine a GTO approach. Especially since ICM plays a huge role in these tourneys. I would recommend playing exploitative depending on other player tendencies.

For Heads up though i do use the Nash Charts which do seem to work really well. Typically when these tourneys go heads up the effective stack is 7-9 BBs and the chart works well at that range. http://www.holdemresources.net/h/poker-theory/hune.html
I agree that playing exploitative styles is more profitable if we can accurately pick up our opponents tendencies.

The idea of having charts is to use when we do not have much/any info on our opponents. They give us a baseline or starting point and then we can adjust them depending on how tight/loose we think our specific opponents are.

I've developed BTN Shoving Ranges using SitNGo Wiz assuming SB and BB have "average" calling ranges. These charts illustrate a break even (or 0.00 Edge).

It's important to note that these ranges are assuming we are on the bubble and the shortest stack. Because of ICM if we are 2nd in chips these ranges tighten up. If we're chip leader the ranges become looser.

I also have created a BB calling range for 5,6,7,8,9 and 10 BB effective. These ranges are calculated on the bubble of a 6max hyper turbo and assume the BB is the chip leader. Again, ranges change depending on opponents tendencies and if we're chip lead, 2nd place, or last place on the bubble. I haven't uploaded the calling ranges as I'm not sure how much interest people have in these things.

[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
03-08-2017 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcallowaylife
I agree that playing exploitative styles is more profitable if we can accurately pick up our opponents tendencies.

The idea of having charts is to use when we do not have much/any info on our opponents. They give us a baseline or starting point and then we can adjust them depending on how tight/loose we think our specific opponents are.

I've developed BTN Shoving Ranges using SitNGo Wiz assuming SB and BB have "average" calling ranges. These charts illustrate a break even (or 0.00 Edge).

It's important to note that these ranges are assuming we are on the bubble and the shortest stack. Because of ICM if we are 2nd in chips these ranges tighten up. If we're chip leader the ranges become looser.

I also have created a BB calling range for 5,6,7,8,9 and 10 BB effective. These ranges are calculated on the bubble of a 6max hyper turbo and assume the BB is the chip leader. Again, ranges change depending on opponents tendencies and if we're chip lead, 2nd place, or last place on the bubble. I haven't uploaded the calling ranges as I'm not sure how much interest people have in these things.


could you use that button shoving range chart for 3handed spin and go's also?
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
08-25-2017 , 12:53 PM
are still working on the hypers
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote
08-25-2017 , 03:18 PM
Do I understand your charts in the OP right: U want to jam and call 100% for 0-5bb? Didn't look at the rest, but that's not a good idea.
[6Max Hypers] - Developing Hand Ranges Quote

      
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