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5 Weird hand with DDBeast! 5 Weird hand with DDBeast!

11-23-2010 , 04:31 AM
Villain is DDBeast, solid SNG reg, and it's 15/30, so usually we are both pretty tight. There's room for him to be 3betting light in position altho I don't usually expect it.

I think the worst thing I did here is flatting pf, should fold or 4bet/get it in, playing OOP vs him with AK isnt that great, but oh well.

On turn, I am check-calling since my hand only beats bluffs (pretty sure he's not betting for value with AT/AJ or even AQ/KQ, since he knows I'm pretty tight and wouldn't be calling with worse). River, I tanked since it's so random for him to have a 10 in his hand, but I could see him value shoving AA and KK, because I checked. But I have blockers!

Such a confusing hand because he checked flop!! Cannot put him on hand. Maybe like JT, or AT/KT/QT, but weird for those hands to bet turn b/c they would sorta be "bluffing" and not for value at all. I'd def check back those hands.

His river bet was a slight over pot bet (1015 into like 865) which is also unusual, since we only do that with the nuts vs the big fish in our games, since we know they are not that good and are willing to call off. Hope he doesn't think I'm a fish!

It's also worthwhile, and strange, to note that my hand is pretty much the same hand as QQ or even A8o... I only beat bluffs. Unless he turned like QJ into a bluff. This is prob one of the most memorable hands of all my high stakes SNGs this year.

Poker Stars $525+$30 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

MP1: t1649 54.97 BBs
MP2: t1445 48.17 BBs
azntracker (CO): t1545 51.50 BBs
DDBeast (BTN): t1425 47.50 BBs
SB: t1436 47.87 BBs
BB: t1410 47 BBs
UTG: t1505 50.17 BBs
UTG+1: t1590 53 BBs
UTG+2: t1495 49.83 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is CO with A K
5 folds, Hero raises to t90, DDBeast raises to t210, 2 folds, Hero calls t120

Flop: (t465) K Q A (2 players)
Hero checks, DDBeast checks

Turn: (t465) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, DDBeast bets t200, Hero calls t200

River: (t865) J (2 players)
Hero checks, DDBeast bets t1015 all in, Hero...?

Last edited by ANDREX; 11-23-2010 at 04:42 AM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:38 AM
Maybe should have betted on the flop or turn, if he reraises you then you might consider him to have JT, or AT/KT/QT
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:44 AM
NH;WP IMO
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:48 AM
why would he ever check a set or TJ on the flop?

c/r or lead turn imo
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Forever
why would he ever check a set or TJ on the flop?

c/r or lead turn imo
To get value from what?

Also I think he could definitely check back a ton of sets on that board. I assume that we are 4-betting KK and AA pre and that he knows this, so that flop doesn't actually hit our range all that hard and is really scary for most of it. The only hands he can get value from are QQ, AK and maybe AQ and he can't get 3 streets from any of the. But, by checking back, he might be able to get some value from more hands on the turn or generally get us to level ourselves here.

The interesting thing in this hand is that we have a hand that has got to be at the very top of our range on the river and we still probably have to fold. If DDbeast can hand read (and he can) it seems like he could pretty much shove anything on this river and expect a fold like always (especially because we didn't lead turn). That makes me kinda sorta want to click call, but even then it seems like a fold.

Last edited by Kvaughan; 11-23-2010 at 05:04 AM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvaughan
To get value from what?
all the pair + draw hands he pot controls the flop with and also to protect vs T and J rivers where he can bluff us
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvaughan
Also I think he could definitely check back a ton of sets on that board.

we have AK/AQ JJ/TT here so often that checking a set is terrible. even if he did check a set it would be with the intention get it in over the turn and river but his turn bet is so small it doesnt look like hes setting up a river shove. until he sees the J....
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 05:35 AM
LOL at your avatar. I didn't know that was you AZN.

PF is a fold in a vacuum I'm sure, although really exploitable, but that is all metagame stuff for you and DD to work out. No way you can 4-bet get it in PF IMO. That would be real bad.

Postflop looks standard and I'd fold the river for sure.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 07:06 AM
What on earth is all this talk of JT QT KT AT, this has got TT written all over it. Defo folding river, rest looks fine.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 09:00 AM
Ask him? Why would TT bet the turn? Maybe he would knowing you're scared of board to bluff u off then BAM hi river
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 10:41 AM
Flop and turn are fine. I would fold river even though we are at the top of our range. Well we could have something like QQ but it's pretty much the same hand. I don't think a solid reg will ever be on a bluff here. Sure if you have seen him ever bluff with a big overbet on the river this might be a spot to look him up since you don't have any straits in your range and his line doesn't make much sense.

I think calling preflop will often get you into difficult situations and I am not sure you can do it profitable against a good opponent. It might be best to just fold to his reraise, but this will be highly exploitable. If you think he is adjusting by 3-betting light it might be best to tighten up your steal range and just push against his 3-bets with hands like AK.

How wide do you think he is reraising here?
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 10:56 AM
4-bet/call pre.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan77
4-bet/call pre.
fail
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan77
4-bet/call pre.
Hate $$ much?
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 02:56 PM
Yeah, isn't it weird that I should prob fold AK here pf, so that is mega-exploitable, and yet to 4bet/call is also spewy since he never stacks off with less than QQ+ (he might even 3bet/fold AK, altho not entirely sure).

I don't like betting flop or turn b/c I'm not really getting value from anything worse..ONLY AQ and that is just one hand.

I think TT was prob his most likely hand in this hand, so I suppose his turn bet was to block me from bluffing river, since he can't really ever call if I bet river. He def knows he's behind with TT. Sick river shove then, cause he prob puts me on exactly AK/AQ or maybe even QQ after I called on turn, and his bet looks so bluffy/enticing to call.

Def gonna ask him wtf he had!

Last edited by ANDREX; 11-23-2010 at 03:01 PM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Forever
all the pair + draw hands he pot controls the flop with and also to protect vs T and J rivers where he can bluff us
I'm having a hard time identifying "all" of these pair+draw hands. I guess JJ and TT are obvious ones, but I'm not entirely sure he calls the turn with those.

Are we thinking he can have AJ, AT? KJ? KT? Kxcc? KQ? I doubt it, so your value range is JJ/TT and I think he folds the turn a ton with those.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Forever
we have AK/AQ JJ/TT here so often that checking a set is terrible.
We have AK a lot, JJ a lot and AQ and TT much less often.

JJ and TT are never ever paying off more than 1 street (and most likely not even that) unimproved on this board.

AK and AQ are also not giving you three streets of value. So, checking a set isn't that bad because we can get stacks in in 2 streets anyways.

Last edited by Kvaughan; 11-23-2010 at 04:15 PM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 05:22 PM
fold pre and dont tell anyone
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 05:57 PM
Is this his normal 3bet size? Coz for me it feels very low and I have a hard time folding AK against a player I think is capable of 3bet bluffing. So Im 50/50 between folding and calling pre, but as sly said thats your metagame stuff to figure out.

As played well I dunno. Do you think he has the nutz to turn AQ type hands into a bluff or really 3bets your pre with hands like TJ or 87? In a vacuum river looks like an easy fold, but I have no idea how you guys play at that level and wouldnt wonder if he has enough bluffs in his range and actually bluffs them to make a call profitable.

Btw, for the people narrowing it to TT. Do you fold AA?
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 06:23 PM
If we're folding AK pre to this small of a 3-bet, does that mean DDbeast can 3-bet ATC?
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 06:23 PM
Interesting indeed!

Azn I think it is important to note who are in the blinds. Doesn't necesarily matter much and it's highly unlikely, but say 2 fish are in the blinds. He'd be bluffing less and maybe flatting some hands he'd otherwise 3bet. Curious if you flat AA/KK here too?

Too much hate on the 4 betting. I can't say what is best preflop, but DD can and should have more 3b bluffs than most of you think he can imo

Last edited by TomoDaK; 11-23-2010 at 06:37 PM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 07:02 PM
Never played this high, but all jmo.

AK is a very important hand to flat with these stacks a non-0% of the time to assist in protecting our range. We should be flatting with a fair number of hands that play pretty poorly vs a good regs 3betting range and are not a lot of fun to try to play profitably either (granted we are on the CO and he is on the button). With that said, we do need to have a flatting range to prevent villain from getting too polar on us and AK certainly seems like a good place to start especially if we aren't willing to 4b/c and 4b/f is clearly pretty bad. Having possible A/K outs in our range definitely helps us play the other hands a little less face up.

I guess we should maybe sometimes 4b/c as a bluff, and I guess that depends a bit on your history CO vs BTN and none of us will probably be able to answer that one for you.

As played, I don't see how you can do anything but fold the river, he can even be thinly VBing QQ here as you pretty much never have a better hand the way this played out imo granted I don't know much about your ranges.

Edit: I don't hate donking the turn either fwiw.

Last edited by Regret$; 11-23-2010 at 07:09 PM.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 07:37 PM
I dont play those stakes , but i cant imagine that it is profitable to call here with AK against a good reg. If we hit we dont get payout and if we dont hit we have to give up on the flop. i would just fold preflop and if he 3 bets you more often than you have to 4bet him.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 07:39 PM
Guise, we are not even trying to turn a profit with AK when we flat, we are trying to prevent rape which is what happens if we fold everything worse than QQs.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote
11-23-2010 , 09:58 PM
this is a really good hand to post

are the blinds regs? idk how wide his 3betting range is but 4betting seems bad with AK

id put him on TT but it seems like a bad hand for him to 3bet PF.
5 Weird hand with DDBeast! Quote

      
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