No stats on villain since it was early, wasnt getting a good price at all and just thought i couldnt beat much on that river vs a shuv range

Ads

Only pocket 9s make sense and he even checked it. I am calling this bs.

There are a couple of hands he could have but like mavs says you'd expect those to bet river so you don't check behind. I'd tend to call here and see a busted flush or straight a lot.

Preflop: Fold

as played

flop: Fine, although I prolly bet around t60

Turn: I would have bet a little more, say around t150

River: You have bet every time and he called every time, so you have to wonder what he has. AQ, AA? Not sure what I would have done in the heat of battle. I might have just checked behind.

Folding preflop is ridiculous. The question is whether you threebet or not.

I mean, I get it. You might be calling with a dominated hand but no one says you have to call down it if you hit top pair. Unsuited, I can see folding just to avoid tough spots postflop, but suited, no way.

I'd probably bet the river because I'm always calling a shove to pick off his bluffs and if he's dumb enough to call with a smaller pair or worse ace, I should give him the opportunity. Checking behind seems okay as well though but I think you probably leave a bit on the table if you do.

He's very unlikely to have AA or AQ. AA is a tiny part of his range and AQ is very unlikely to check the river because if you check behind that's a disaster for him. I mean, it's in there, I daresay, because who knows how these people think, but anyone who does check AQ there is going to have tons of other **** that you beat easily.

How is it possible oppo has AA with 2 aces on board and hero that has the third ace?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using 2+2 Forums

Ha ha, good point. See, a tiny part of his range indeed!

If this was higher stakes and you knew you were highly unlikely to get value on the turn. It's a great spot to check behind even with the flush draw. Even at this stake if you come across a reg who will likely not call the turn bet with the flush draw. Good spot to check behind.

Overall I'm just calling it off on the river.

For the guy who said fold pre-flop, please keep folding if you think that's the right play. Checking behind river given the action is not actually all that bad. But it's pretty tight. You certainly can get value on the river here. The question is what sizing will do it for you. I think 135-145 is probably the best size for that.

If you want to analyze the river, the only hands this guy shows up with I'm fairly confident that's not a bluff is going to be QQ or 99. He probably never has AQ. Since 99 is more unlikely than QQ given the board and you 2 barreled. You can probably erase a combo of that or change the % of time he has 99 to like <80%, well u know what I mean.

He does however have a ton of missed draws.

Dont fold, and take a note on what he plays like this.

@Dochrohan I wouldnt discard A5 or A9 as potential holdings that have us beat and as we have no info on villain he might aswell play those hands like this.

You'd have to go quite a lot higher and be sure you were against a decent player before checking behind turn is correct tbh and folding pre is never good. Please don't encourage noobs to be horrible nits.

And checking behind river is not just tight, it's bad if you think you should make a value bet.

Basically, you just said that any action whatsoever is right but clearly some actions are going to be better.

They are fine for their own reasons.

If you are going to bet/fold to this sizing, it's probably right t not bet river.

If you are going to play AJs that terrible postflop, it's probably best not to play.

I kinda like checking on the river and just let him fire a bet. I do that when I'm kinda not sure where I'm at. Most likely he would have bet smaller so we can call it easier.

Makes no sense hero is IP

Oh I agree with the first sentence a lot. We're not folding on the river.

But the second, not so much. You have to get out of your comfort zone to learn, right?

True true

Monkey: Please explain your rational for it being "ridiculous" to fold AJ(s) to a villan who is unknown and has raised from EP.

While I am constantly trying to become a better player, I would like to explain how I arrived at my reasoning for folding AJ(s) in this situation.

I base it on two things:

1. David Sklansky's gap concept: "You need a better hand to call a raise than you would open with"

2. Collin Moshman 's discussion in his book "Sit'n Go Strategy. His discussion about ICM during low blind play as well as his statement on page 27 of his book, when discussing AQ, AJ(s) and 99-JJ: "In middle position or late position, call or raise with all these hands against
limpers/folders, but tend to fold (particularly AQ(o) and 99) if someone has raised."

Therefore, based on the above, when I made my spreadsheet for playing online SNGs. I decided to play only the following hands against an unknown player who raises frome EP during low blind play:
AA-KK always 3 bet,
TT-QQ mixtures of calls, raises
77-99, AK and AQ(s) call.

If this is too tight, please explain your rationale and facts to prove I am wrong. As I stated, I am not saying I am correct and I am always looking for ways to improve my game.

I'd call you a nit if you opened moshmans ranges.

The EP player raised it to only 40. If he 3x it to 60 I guess you can fold, but personally I'm either flatting or reraising with AJ or AJ suited. Small raises like that or open limpers should be punished. I think alot of the Moshman stuff is outdated, how long has the strategy been out? Should be looking for ways to semi build a stack so makes it easier later on in the sit n go.

like the ak or aq call in moshman, I think is just ridiculous. Everything has to do with situation, if someone late positon limps in and you have AK... your just gonna call?? Pretty sure moshman himself doesn't play like that nowadays.

Yes, this would hold here. We're in the cutoff and should certainly raise with a lot of hands worse than AJs.

I mean, Moshman is fairly decent for beginning players and I'm not going to knock him, but he did not write a bible.

If you fold 99 to a 2x raise you are making a big mistake. Just its value as a setmining hand alone mandates calling.

AJs just has too much value to fold to a minraise. You are in position with a hand that plays decenly postflop. You are smart enough not to stack off if you hit top pair and it's a perfectly reasonable speculative hand.

If you are against a better ace, you have often flopped a draw also, so you are not crushed if chips go in.

If everyone folds behind, you have a small enough pot that you can call a bet on the flop. If they don't, you have a hand that plays reasonably well multiway, with the added benefit that lowstakes fish will always call with KJ/QJ/JT even J9 and sometimes hands like J8s/J7s.

If this is too tight, please explain your rationale and facts to prove I am wrong. As I stated, I am not saying I am correct and I am always looking for ways to improve my game.[/QUOTE]

Why are you calling with 77 and not with 66? I mean, we're calling 40 chips. You're not really making a mistake if you call with a lot of SCs afaik and certainly not with any pair.

Why are you mixing calls and raises with TT-QQ? I'm just curious. You should always 3bet at least QQ/JJ against an unknown and I think most players will 3bet TT as well. Why are you only calling AK? It's a very strong hand. Against an unknown it's an autoraise because if you look at the range of ranges that players have at this level, they'll tend to have a lot of Ax and they don't like folding those hands preflop.

I don't have the time or patience to give you figures to prove it, sorry, but I think most players who've played a decent amount come to the same kind of conclusion because we can see in our own databases that we do better when we play these hands aggressively.

And of course, this is a simple principle of poker: if you have a stronger hand than your opponent's range, you want to play for more money. In the long run, you will do better because quite simply poker is about making bets that favour you and avoiding taking them when they don't.

So is AJs stronger than villain's range? Probably not. But you have good implied odds also. And importantly, when your hand dominates his, he is liable to give you more chips than you give him when his dominates yours. Just don't give away reverse implieds too often and you're sweet.

I would definitely call the river. Players in the $3.50 STTs do a lot of weird things, and I can absolutely see them playing the hand this way with a weak A, all the way down to A2 (although more likely suited when it gets that low, which doesn't help them in this hand).

That being said, they also like to trap with their monster hands, no matter how big or small the pot is. There is a very small chance the villain has QQ, AQ, or any other full house combination here. There is also the chance they are trapping with AK here and treating it as the nuts.

But I still have to say call. Villain has a non-full-house A here often enough that it's worth calling. And in very rare cases, they might surprise you with a hand like KQ!