Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
A8o shove or fold A8o shove or fold

01-09-2018 , 04:24 PM
I'm working on my BB defense. Shove or fold? What is your shoving range here?


    Poker Stars, $5 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37928737

    MP1: 5,192 (17.3 bb)
    MP2: 6,144 (20.5 bb)
    MP3: 3,750 (12.5 bb)
    CO: 5,505 (18.4 bb)
    BTN: 7,870 (26.2 bb)
    SB: 4,963 (16.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): 5,061 (16.9 bb)
    UTG+1: 10,136 (33.8 bb)
    UTG+2: 3,560 (11.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 A
    3 folds, MP2 raises to 600, 4 folds, Hero raises to 5,021 and is all-in, MP2 calls 4,421

    Flop: (10,552) 6 5 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (10,552) 6 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (10,552) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 10,552 pot
    Final Board: 6 5 9 6 4
    MP2 showed T A and won 10,552 (5,491 net)
    Hero showed 7 A and lost (-5,061 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 04:31 PM
    A8 is too weak IMO to shove. K9s or better if you are desperate. Tough you still had like 3 orbits to pick a spot.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 04:50 PM
    Don't like the reshove - seems close between a call and a fold. Any reads / stats on V?
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 05:28 PM
    Quote:
    Don't like the reshove - seems close between a call and a fold. Any reads / stats on V?
    I don't think A8o flops well, that's why I don't want to flat either. Some sources say that I should shove any Ax in this spot. No stats, I should lean towards folding if vp is low?
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 06:08 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woodstokk
    I don't think A8o flops well, that's why I don't want to flat either. Some sources say that I should shove any Ax in this spot. No stats, I should lean towards folding if vp is low?
    your hand is actually A7
    Agreed it doesn't flop well - but the odds are better than 4:1
    Not sure how you get shoving any A - MP open isn't likely to be that loose and stack is on the small side to have much fold equity.

    yes - lean towards fold with low vpip
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 09:42 PM
    This would be fine against a BTN or CO open but without a read MP2's range is a bit too strong there.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-09-2018 , 10:12 PM
    I've been paying close attention to situations like this for the past few months in my foray into micro-stakes tourneys ($.50 - $1.00 buy-ins, $50 - $200 guaranteed) and the only time you should be shoving A7o with this stack size is when you've observed the player raising almost every time it's folded to him - a true position raiser.

    What I've found is even with a stack size this small you should have waited on AJ+, or maybe ATs, to rr shv here, and I'm not just saying that because V had AT. Even AQ is the fine line I've observed as being the +EV. I've just found that opponents aren't raising super weak as often as they seem to (unless, Like I said, you've got evidence to believe V is a positional rsr), especially not in mid pos. So many times when I've rr shvd AQ in situations like this I've found myself to be up against AJ - it's that close VERY often, and I believe you're way better off for waiting a few orbits to get it in on a 70-30 edge with say 12BB's rather than getting it in 30-70 with 16 BB's.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-10-2018 , 06:24 AM
    This is probably only a jam vs. the loosest of openers. It becomes a better jam vs. loose openers with a high F3b%. Against most players or with no read, I'd just call. Your odds are good and A7o is too strong to fold.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-10-2018 , 06:41 AM
    I agree calling it off, we need to call 300 to win the 1400 in the pot, thus getting more than 4:1. After calling we well be OOP for the rest of the hand. What if we hit our ace on the flop and villain has a better ace and starts betting us? We need to still get it in?
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-10-2018 , 07:17 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woodstokk
    I agree calling it off, we need to call 300 to win the 1400 in the pot, thus getting more than 4:1. After calling we well be OOP for the rest of the hand. What if we hit our ace on the flop and villain has a better ace and starts betting us? We need to still get it in?
    Well, if he has a better ace and starts betting into you, you are usually going to lose all of your chips You're too shallow to check-fold top pair in a spot where he can cbet a high %. Usually, the best way to play a spot like this IMO is to check-call flop and check turn trying to induce a double barrel bluff. Sometimes you'll be beat, but at least you played the hand in a way that kept his range as wide as possible.

    But, if you play well post, you can usually double up when you hit an Ace and he has hands like KK, QQ, JJ, etc. He won't put you on many aces, so these will be tough to lay down, especially when you start the hand by checking. You can also induce bluffs and be way ahead of his air, draws, etc. You might also be able to bluff at some point and win the pot without showdown.

    In general, with my stronger hands (pair of Aces+) I will usually check-call down trying to induce bluffs. With draws and 7x/a couple Ax, I will usually check-jam.
    A8o shove or fold Quote
    01-10-2018 , 08:26 AM
    Thank you RPMcMurphy... that makes sense
    A8o shove or fold Quote

          
    m