888 Poker - $0.90+$0.10|30/60 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 9.33 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
BB: 16.17 BB (VPIP: 16.33, PFR: 17.78, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 50)
Hero (UTG): 15.67 BB
CO: 3 BB (VPIP: 56.00, PFR: 31.82, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
BTN: 5.83 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9 9



All randoms as you can see, except for BB.

What is an optimal line of play here? Raise and call all shoves except for BB? Push?

In theory the small raise is better I think but it opens the door for a semi-bluff shove from the BB if he is tricky or possibly a call.

In practice, I don't think people actually do this very often though. Yeah, I do it sometimes, but it's probably bad for my bankroll. If the BB shoves you might be able to get away from the hand (?)

You don't fold to any shoves if you raise. The question is whether you play against wider ranges by raising or by shoving. It can go either way based on whether your opponents perceive your shove to be polarized or your raise to be weak. Since these are 1$ sng players your best bet is probably raise/call because you won't worry about getting called and having to play oop and at these stakes people usually think shoves are strong and small bets are weak.

What range of hands are you folding to after a min raise if any? And besides what's even the payout structure? .666,.333? Top two or top 3?

I get why 9's raise/calling, but sometimes depending on the player it makes sense to min raise/fold assuming they are only shoving hands that can theoretically call an all in.

For example, is 22 min raise/call? I'd be a little hard pressed regardless of whether it pays top 2 or top 3.

I don't know I've just read some strategies about people who use min/raise fold sometimes in certain situations.

Probably better off shoving with a hand like 22, but it might be a fold. I haven't really looked at this spot in terms of push/fold equilibrium, but 22 seems like a +ev shove in general and the most likely way our opponents will play against a raise is to shove hands that flip with 22 which we would prefer to have fold. 99 is different because a lot of the hands people will shove are hands that are way behind, like weaker pairs and Ax.

Okay, makes sense. 99 is a strong hand and I would be hesitant to fold it, especially considering that someone might shove loose versus a min raise. If they are very tight though they are probably only shoving 99+ (this might depend on the cash structure). I don't think I'm overshoving 22-66 for example. I might try 7's or 8's if I feel lucky but I think it's a bit risky.

Shoving 2's make sense, but if you're going to shove 2's you have to shove hands like AA and KK to balance the range. Of course, maybe balancing your range isn't worth the effort against people who can't track you effectively (on bovada for example).

+1 to emitnulB

Balancing your open jam and raise/decide ranges is a fruitless activity in a $1 game. Do not concern yourself with such things

Well, are you guys implying that the majority of "good" players are only min-raising good hands and folding the crappiest ones? If so, then they are exploitable like hell. On sites with HUDS, I highly doubt good players are playing this transparently anywhere in the midstakes sit and go's. Obviously Bovada where I play is different.

I mean, it kind of makes sense but it kind of doesn't. If someone shoves 2's then they have no chance to get out of the hand. It seems like min raise should always be best. If the BB calls, you can simply fold if you miss. A lot of times people won't bother calling because they think it is "bad" when really it isn't.

In cash games, this may be a terrible strategy, but I tend to think in sit and go's, you don't want to shove 2's or 3's here. It just seems bad to me.

Well, people will disagree with me to the ends of the earth. I don't know. It just makes no sense to me.

I'm not sure how making a +ev shove makes no sense to you readless, but I'll give you that it's a small edge.

No, it makes sense and I appreciate your posts and not getting testy with me

I just was trying to get a discussion going.

There are a lot of factors to take into account and I don't see anything wrong with shoving 2's (assuming I entered it correctly into the nash calculator) I guess I just think against certain opponents you can get away with min-raise folding (ie opponents like myself who don't overshove loose often).

Well the problem you get when you start r/f with 22 is that you almost always have odds to call because the vast majority of hands that 3bet you are flips. With so much dead money you really can't fold. It's hard to immagine you have less than 40% vs an oop shove and you'll have to call like 13 to win 20. It's just better to shove because he might fold more hands that would normally 3bet our open like 33/44/A9. You can debate where to draw the line between raise/call and shove (66/77/88/shove range), but you can't really debate between r/f and shove here. You would need a strong read to r/f and not only do you not have it, anyone you get that strong of a read on is probably a losing player and not going to be around for long enough to get that read.

I would agree with you in a heartbeat if it were a cash game. I'm just not sure about sit and go's.

I understand what you are saying though and appreciate the input. I'll think about it some more.

At what blind level is it okay to min raise/fold?

- In a cash game

- In a sit and go of this type