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Originally Posted by King Spew
Do we hash this out in this thread?
Sure. Or in another. However you want -- happy to move these posts to a new thread if you want to start one.
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Rake is $1 for every $10 up to a $3 max. BBJ is $2 if there is a flop.
$5 rake isn't $7, but it is a lot. You're going to have to be the best player at the table to make money, and it has to be by a good margin. The other issue is that the max rake is way more than 10%, so if the pot is $32, all $5 are going down. If the game typically has $80 pots then less of an issue.
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I would say that 5 to the flop is the norm. I'll fold to a raise PF without a decent hand if I have nothing invested and call if it is only one back to me.
Just to be clear, in a limit hand once you've committed funds you're almost always seeing a flop. Maybe if it is like 3 more bets back to you...
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I'll fold TP type hands on river when multiway with a bet and call in front. RARELY am I ahead.
RARELY = less than 10:1 or 15:1 often? In a 20/40 game, overcalling is probably bad. In small stakes, there is that WTF factor... the guy betting may be betting correctly, but the callers don't realize "hey, there are like 4 guys behind me and I need way more hand to call". They just thing "pairs can win".
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I call just about every TP hands HU. I'll call a majority of big pots on the river "for one more" if I only have to be good 10% or less. I think this part of my game is pretty good.
Sounds good.
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Concerns
1. I don't raise much PF. (I do play fairly tight...and positionally aware opening up as I approach button. PF steals are non-existent). There are VERY few 3! PF here. Even with my tight image a raise from me in EP will get 5+ callers. If I 3! from LP, everyone stays in. And I play the hand battling huge ranges. An example from last week had me losing a raised PF hand...4 to flop....to the BB with 32o. "I had the perfect hand to bust aces".
You just need positive equity to raise. Good players are just value raising a lot of hands. If you only raise TT+, AQo+, AJs , you're missing value and you're making it correct for the few observant players to play carefully. If a guy wants to put in a bunch of bets preflop with 32o, you're cheating him of the chance if you limp or overlimp or coldcall.
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2. I call a bunch of flops with any small piece (or pocket pair that missed)...maybe as small as two backdoors....ya know, to see what develops on the turn. BUT....I fold turn a ton...maybe too much,,, but I never seem to hit yada yada yada. Can't find a call with a gutshot on the turn ever
Gutshot and an overcard?
Odds are odds. You're thinking good things.
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3. Still can't wrap my head around betting strat with TPTK on the flop on a wet board. I sometimes bet hard, sometimes wait to see what falls on the turn.
You can't bet hard in limit.
You either do or you don't. Run some equilab. If you're winning the pot 30% of the time and getting 5 callers... that's profit. It is also misery 70% of the time.
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4. I fear The Flush/Str8. I know it's stupid but a two-flush or 3 to-a-straight flop gets me to slam on the brakes more than it should I suppose. But if I can't beat TPGK, I drop the hand. If I do, I'll call flop, eval turn. If a blank, I'll bet hard. If it completes I'll drop because someone already hit and two others will rep that it hit them as well....
Some of this is great. If you turn 2 pair and lose to a rivered flush, you don't lose your whole stack. You have to realize the people drawing to top pair 2nd best kicker and to 2nd best flush are shoveling all their monies to the best hand and the best draw. So if you bet or raise flop with the current best hand, sure you're helping out the flush draw. However, the two of you are chopping up people drawing dead to the pair of you.
In limit you have fewer hard decisions on the river. You don't have to worry about facing a shove or as much about keeping the pot the right size for your hand strength. It could be your opponents are so passive you just bet and fold to a raise a bunch. It could be they're random enough to bet and then shrug and call the rare spew bluff.