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Old 05-26-2012, 04:34 PM   #1
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Heart value bet or check call hand ?

situation :


a LAG openraise BU , we in BB called with K2c .

BU probably more LAG than TAG.

flop 9h8h2s (4.5sb)

we decide to lead for not getting 3bet if we check/raise the flop ( probably a mistake)
BU only called


turn 5s (3.25 bb)

we lead again because lot of draws are present and BU might still put us only on a draw .
we open ourself tho to get raise for freee SD ,etc
maybe check/call is better if we know he loves to smooth call flop to raise turn or he does lot of freeSD play.
we dont have that read tho .


river 9s hit .... (5.25 bb)


do we bet or check/call ?
some might even ask can we even check/fold.


i could come out with a range vs this particular villain but im not asking the precise action here but more for the tought process strategically.

i m one of those who doesnt bet for value very thin.
i would like to correct this.

but here , is it really a standard value bet generally or an induce check/call play.


imo i have difficulty to see this has an easy value bet instead of an induce c/c .

what u think ?

stakes are up to 1$ BB and below .


my main concern is not to bet/fold and getting scared to be bluff at by folding.
i just dont see that many hand that would call where we would still have over 50% equity when villain call river.

toughts ?

ps: lol sorry happy fish, i press wrong button, now u probably see the thread in full "), sorry

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 05-26-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:43 PM   #2
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

What's the question
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:09 PM   #3
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

I go for the k/c -- particularly against aggressive opponents.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:05 PM   #4
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

b/3b the flop would be silly. you can decide between c/r the flop and c/c. While it is possible that you have a balanced donking strategy on the flop, most people don't and it is a sign of weak play. HU, just check everything and decide among c/f, c/r, and c/c.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:38 AM   #5
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

well ty doug, but what about the river here ?
this is where my problem is for bet thin value or c/c
thx
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:32 AM   #6
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

The only way I'm value betting this hand unimproved is when I check call the flop and then a showdown bound lag checks back the turn. Then I'll value bet a lot of rivers(this is a good river). As played I don't know what to do because I wouldn't donk. I guess against a showdown bound player donking the flop and bet folding the turn can't be that bad unless you think he'll be taking shots at you on the turn, in which case the checking strategy becomes much better. You keep the pot smaller and don't end up turning a showdown hand into a bluff(which I think it would be on any straight making or overcard river.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #7
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
well ty doug, but what about the river here ?
this is where my problem is for bet thin value or c/c
The villain never has a 9, so that's a blank. I doubt he has backdoor . So, if you were good before, you're good now. I think he'd be willing to put you on a combo draw often enough to call with an A, so you can consider value betting. Your hand is unreadable to most good players, so the range he puts you on won't even include your hand. We'd need a read as to how likely he is to call three streets with A high (or even K high), You don't beat a pair, so it is just a question of do you get calls from hands you beat often enough to bet for value.

Honestly, you can wonder how easy this guy is to induce and how thin he value bets. Would he bet 44 here to a check? AK? Against a low WTSD player who doesn't bluff, c/f could be right.

one other thing
Quote:
we lead again because lot of draws are present and BU might still put us only on a draw .
we open ourself tho to get raise for freee SD ,etc
Free SD raises are a sickness that a few people have. I wouldn't define my strategy around him doing it, because so few people FSDR. Oddly, your exact hand is likely to be worse than most hands a villain would FDSR unless he does it with AK. If you really thought he was FSDR-ing you, you should think about making a rebluff and win the pot. If you have enough fancy play to try this, you have big leaks and should really examine your own game.

Many (most) villains with a monster would wait for the turn, so flop call, turn raise is often just crushing you. Mix in the fact that many FSDR hands beat you, and b/f the turn seems safe without a read to the contrary.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:59 AM   #8
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

well ty

actually this hand doesnt belong to me.
its the flip coin of a video i saw, the pro (i guess) was saying the hero ( the villain in his video representing hero here) made an obvious mistake for not betting for value on the river, wich is a common mistake at those stakes....

the way he talked it was a clear value bet, thats why i was asking cause it wasnt for me..

ty all
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:25 PM   #9
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Re: value bet or check call hand ?

if you have no clue on the river, than go back in time and rethink your strategy as from the flop.
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