Long time lurker, first time caller.

Played on an off for a couple of years, nothing big, just here and there and recreational...mainly SNGs.

My eventual goal is to play microstakes NLHE by the end of the year.

Should I even bother with Limit at all? I mean I know that it's useful.....Forgive my ignorance....I searched the Limit micro forums and could not find a good answer to that.

I love how organized the micro Limit section is on here, and I guess I'm looking for further proof that Limit would help me out with my goals.

I mean, i can beat LHE microstakes and I can also beat NLHE microstakes... i think learning any poker game well is going to help you with your goal no matter what. Honestly though, if you really just want to learn NLHE, then just deposit some money online and start there. You only need say $40 to grind 2NL. I would just go with limit, because i find it more interesting.

No, games are dead or dying live and online.

Thank goodness you saved it up for this epic post.

Just so we know, what are you playing now? Why aren't you playing uNLHE now?

Then what's the question? Oh, and why do you think it's "useful"?

(And, fwiw, if you've really been lurking for a long time, you'll know this question gets asked at least once every 6 months or so and isn't met with a positive response.)

Help you out with your goals of playing the same game under another betting structure at the same stakes by the end of the year? Yeah, that should work out just fine.

(On a less snarky note, playing limit will help you learn the basics that apply to all games [reading the board, estimating your outs against an opponent's range, calculating pot-odds, etc], while minimizing your risk exposure compared to no-limit. It will not, however, increase your bankroll or turn you into come kind of poker savant.)

^This

i have to agree with Reasonable Guy tbh.

I play offpeak and its not worth my ****ing time playing LHE anymore. offpeak limit holdem is basically a game of playing against sober euro's who play ok but not terrible enough to make it worth my while trying to beat the rake trap. Also pokerstars don't give a **** about limit holdem. they haven't done **** all to improve the games apart from a tiny rake change. what i mean is, if you can beat the limit games at stars then u are great at poker.For everyone else, then u better hope to run good cos if u dont then you won't win.

i'm not saying playing LHE can't teach you a bunch of lots of poker, it can. but for me, it just doesn't give me a thrill anymore (but I've learnt and forgotten more than OP has experienced about LHE over my last 7 years so that I feel bad about saying what I just said).

basically, FU pokerstars. Why? because stars hasn't done anything meaningful to say it cares about limit holdem. And yes, i've sent them very direct emails about this but they dont care.

end rant. hehe

to be clear. pokerstars are the big player and they have done **** ALL to improve LIMIT holdem. To be blunt, it is their business but if i believe that they are doing nothing to help a type of game that interests me and the community that I moderate then I have absolutely no problem calling POKERSTARS out on it.

ReasonableGuy, A_Schupick, OziBattler this is kinda what I was getting at. If I take the time to learn and play and study, will there even be decent enough LHE games online. (eventually I would like to play 6max LHE, but based on your responses, those games might be nonexistent.) I know that LHE can be a useful starting point as far as teaching disciplined play, but I really want to get started playing.

I guess you could say I was essentially wondering about the relevancy and popularity of micro stakes LHE and LHE in general. Don't wanna waste my time and may just jump into NLHE micros.

bozlax, thanks for the warm welcome. Epic post this is not, but I AM starting somewhere. I actually expected more snarkiness. I've been for away for a while, and I've never been too serious about poker. (mainly played low stakes SNGs and 180 mans, with a a cash here and there. I don't have graphs or anything like that. I 've played NLHE microstakes here and there as well and I really like them better)

I'm fairly intelligent and know the basics of calculating pot odds, can read the board, etc but want to get better. I know this is the beginning of a long and never ending journey. I'm not trying to be a savant or get rich quick, for sure. I just want to make sure that jumping to NLHE I'm not missing anything significant from LHE that I would have learned eventually. My goal right now is just learning how to play, and actually playing the micros for a while. Not looking to make money or supplement my income (yet).

I just really really like poker. Is it such a goddamn crime to say that?

thanks. all.

1. If you really like poker, just throw fifty or a hundred bucks online and play whatever, try all the games.
   
2. If you like poker and want to get better, just throw fifty or a hundred bucks on line, play whatever, post and discuss hands in the strat forums, read some books, etc.
   
3. If you like poker and want to make money at it, do all the above, then figure out what games you can have an edge in that will offer decent game selection for you.

I would say that for most people, LHE probably isn't a very good choice for #3. Fine for #1 or #2.

No worries, and no it's not, but that's not what you said. Like a lot of NL-focused players that post in here you made a post basically asking, "What's the point of playing limit?" That's paraphrased, but close enough.

If your goal is to play uNL and you already know the basics then there's really no point in dipping your toe into limit games. As everybody else has said, the games are drying (have dried) up, and the Powers That Be don't seem too interested in reviving them. It's still worth playing live if you live near a cardroom that spreads it, and there may be a resurgence if legislation ever hits in the U.S., but those are both too unlikely to be worth hanging your hat on.

The differences in nearly everything besides out-counting and hand-odds between limit and NL make them two different games for all intents and purposes. Starting at limit will make you too loose for NL games, and you'll probably go through a pretty steep downswing if you try to make a transition.

I think if you study and such the games are not unbeatable like Ozzi says.

Door #3.

yeah that's essentially what I wanted to know. Thanks again.

Fwiw I'm not saying the microstakes aren't beatable but imo once you get to any stake where u can get lots of vpps the games are going to be really tough - well at least they were for me to the point where i had to quit them.

However, my experiences no doubt have added bias to my opinion and feel for the games might well be outdated so I fully admit my advice likely isn't the best op will get itt.

My $0.02...

I would have to agree with Ozi. uLHE isn't popular anymore. I play on Merge and right now, at this very moment, there is 1 table available at the stakes that I play ($0.05/$0.10) and 0 tables at the stakes that I would really like to play ($0.10/$0.20). Off peak hours, there just isn't enough traffic. Much could be said about whether traffic will pick up if they ever legalize online poker. But for now, the games are few and far between.

TBH, I started playing LHE because it was a game where counting outs, reading the board, reading your opponent and pot odds become very important because there isn't as much FE as in NL. I thought it was much more of a challenge at the time and the game just stuck. If you really feel like playing LHE, by all means, go for it. But if you're looking to multi-table and really grind it out, there just isn't enough games running, IMO.

But you did pick the right place. The guys here are EXTREMELY knowledgeable and very good at what they do.