I'm happy I'm finally making my first post on 2+2, this is long overdue. I've played a lot of Limit Hold'em and always got better by figuring out stuff by my self. It's time to improve and ask for your advice and hopefully I can give something back as well in time.

I want to start with a "simple" Preflop Check-up. Most of my play has always been FR and a lot of situations just occur a lot less in FR then they do in 6-max. Also I still have to get used to people's ranges and often more aggresive play (both pre and post flop). I came accross this hand which is a pretty common situation but I would like to use it to check if my tought process on defining my cold-calling range is correct:


MP Plays 30/22 over a small sample and is a winning regular.
CO is an aggresive player and is the weaker player in the game. I have him on 42/29 over a small sample.

I don't use a lot of PokerStove but I've tried the come up with some calculations:

1) If MP calls:

MP: 66+,A4s+,K7s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (21%)
CO: 77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KQo (11%)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 29.585% 29.41% 00.17% 13524336814 79191921.67 { 6c6s }
Hand 1: 31.841% 30.86% 00.98% 14191869136 448662367.67 { 66+, A4s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 38.574% 37.67% 00.90% 17320424628 416087308.67 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

Now I need to call 2 Small Bets in a pot which is going to be 9,5 Small Bets in total (Including my 2 Small Bets). 2/9,5 (2:7,5) would mean I need 21% to call this.

2) If MP 4bets:

MP: TT+,AKs (2,6%)
CO: 77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KQo (11%)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 19.954% 19.86% 00.09% 1134213860 5279562.67 { 6c6s }
Hand 1: 51.479% 50.88% 00.59% 2905793428 33918897.67 { TT+, AKs }
Hand 2: 28.567% 27.97% 00.59% 1597436518 33918897.67 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

Now I need to call 3 small bets (which I obviously only know after the 4-bet) in a pot which is going to be 12,5 bets. 3/12,5 (3:9,5) would mean I need 24% to call.

Assuming MP always 4bets this range, we only get 4bet 1 out of 8 times. So 1 out of 8 times we lose roughly 4% in equity and 7 out of 8 times we are 8,5% ahead.

Now this looks to me like an easy call.

Now before I throw in a lot of other hands (to come up with my coldcalling range in this situation), I would like to know if my tought process as described above is correct? Sure we could debate about the ranges I gave to the players but that's not the most important thing. I would like to know if this is the correct way to come up with my cold-calling range here in this situation?

I'd add 2 considerations:
1. What are the blinds likely to do? Is the hand likey to stay 3 way or is it likely to be 4way+
2. What's your post flop plan? set mine and fold ui, or showdown for one bet per street (fold to 2 bet's ui) or something else?

I don't think you can look just at your equity to call here without considering how many bets you'll be putting in post flop as an underdog...

I'm Confused, thread title says BB, posted hand looks like you are BTN. Which is correct?

Also why are you ruling out Capping or Folding as options?

It should be first 2 folds and then I'm the BB. Deleted to much in the HH, nice for a first post

I'm not ruling out folding but I'm trying to come up with my Cold-Calling range, if I'm not Cold-Calling, I'm folding. I'm not Capping because I think I do not have enough equity to do so as and can Cold-Call enough hands (I actually want to determine that) without making my hand to obvious.

1) As mentioned since I edited the HH wrong, I'm BB myself not BTN.

2) With what board I would continue depends a bit on if the pot is 4bet or not. If the pot is 4bet it would make our relative position better but our equity worse since MP's range is smaller. For sure I would continue with a Set, Up/Down and a gutshot flop like 4,5,8.

Do I really need to try and calculate for all possible post-flop scenario's before determing my pre-flop play?

To some extent yes. Your willingness to gamble on a hand like 66 should be related to your ability to play it properly when you miss your set. So you don't need to have every possibility covered, but you should have a general notion of how things would best be played in different scenarios.

You have a 7.5:1 of hitting a set on the flop. You're paying 3.75:1 to stay in. That needs a fair bit of implied odds equity to make up the difference. If your plan is set-or-fold, then you're best off not cold-calling, especially with only two in. In the other circumstances (straight draws) you've got to know the equity is there to permit the pf coldcall. Remember that pursuing OESD hands need ~5:1 pot odds to break even.

The other problem, as I see it, is that your cold-calling range isn't going to be a constant across all game situations. Against a VPIP 6/PFR 6 MP (I see this in micro-FR, probably not likely in 6max at these stakes) with few others in, I'd be folding every time. With looser players, particulary if they fold easily on a missed flop, I'm more likely to CC (or raise).

Just my .02

I messed around with stove a bit. I found that on favorable 8 high flops and lower, our equity stayed between 51% and 64% against the c bettor in late position. The 64% flops were those with 66 being an overpair with an oesd. Most flops under 8 high gave 66 about 53%. On one of the best T high flops, T22r, 66 has 42.5%. Most other flops are even worse.

So we can rarely get in good check raises to get it heads up against the c bettor. I fold.

I actually folded as well but that's not really my question. When I folded I was considering a call which brought me to this quesiton. I have more hands which I consider a call, I would like to know how I could determine a could cold-call range.

I would think that while I might have the equity to call, I could rather not because not a lot of flops would make it possible to continue with my hand. But how do I come up with a decent cold-calling range, or even a range to raise with in the BB?

if youre on the fence right now, then dont forget about the cbet villain will most likely put in on the flop . that might tip you over

So let's assume that 66 is a fold (which is my normal play). With what hands do we want to call here? Or are we in a spot where we can better cap or fold?

KQs gives us slightly better results:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.837% 28.54% 02.30% 37791223800 3041453970.00 { KQs }
Hand 1: 29.906% 28.11% 01.79% 37224974844 2375400510.00 { 66+, A4s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 39.257% 36.70% 02.55% 48599883516 3381899760.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.019% 22.94% 01.07% 3407981088 159608588.00 { KQs }
Hand 1: 49.623% 48.91% 00.71% 7264895688 105861392.00 { TT+, AKs }
Hand 2: 26.358% 24.86% 01.50% 3692827872 222315716.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

How many people would fold AQo here? I don't think a lot, but would you cap it?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.997% 31.37% 03.63% 114514002120 13248949566.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 29.776% 28.05% 01.73% 102398961972 6305267328.00 { 66+, A4s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 35.227% 32.25% 02.98% 117739139604 10863850722.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.255% 21.73% 01.52% 9222190596 646912444.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 53.196% 52.44% 00.75% 22255973364 319598608.00 { TT+, AKs }
Hand 2: 23.549% 21.72% 01.82% 9219454944 774413884.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

AJs same story:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.729% 30.44% 03.29% 36732650516 3971952601.33 { AJs }
Hand 1: 29.420% 27.60% 01.82% 33313492500 2190979549.33 { 66+, A4s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }
Hand 2: 36.851% 34.07% 02.78% 41112601260 3359505733.33 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.997% 22.63% 01.36% 3287458248 198023996.00 { AJs }
Hand 1: 51.398% 50.66% 00.74% 7357906428 107439794.00 { TT+, AKs }
Hand 2: 24.604% 22.98% 01.62% 3338260800 235420118.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }

Your assumptions for ranges are too tight.

How wide is a good 6max BTN open at $5/T? 40-60%?

A Laggy SB 3! top 20-25%?


I don't CC in this situation.

I cap 66+, A9s+, ATo+, KTs+, KJo, QJs, 89s-JTs

Also consider your image. Have you been playing tighter, looser, been caught bluffing, etc. to adjust the above range.

Having a calling range in this situation is like dropping chum in the water.

first - I could be all wrong fwiw....

I don't think we include our bets in our pot odds - so we're getting 8:2 or 4:1 at the decision point on the call and I'd assume MP calls something like 75% and caps 25% of the time - so for pot odds, I think it goes goes something like
75%(9:2=22%) + 25%(11:3=27%) = .165 + .07 = 23.5% pot odds

I'd probly call with hands that have at least 23% equity vs MP capping range and I'm probably not capping anything oop cuz
1. we don't have any fe
2. I don't want to narrow my range to AA, KK, AKs
3. I want to see (get info) from what happens on the flop and pick a spot to get the most value from monster hands

Edit: you're probly better to go with what Duff sayz - I don't like to cap from oop in BB in these spots

Augwest, you are correct we don't get to include our bets about to go in, though I still don't agree with your result (unless you were rounding??):

If MP only calls, we get 7.5:2 (or maybe 7.4:2? is small blind only $2 in 5/T?) or 3.75:1 on a call. If MP caps it'll end up 9.5:3, or 3.17:1 on a call. Little less with rake. Maybe assume ~3.5:1 average.


I think the screwy original post has you confused on the action, unless I've missed some inline discussion itt. But he's not facing a BTN open and SB 3bet; it's an open from the HJ and a CO 3bet, hero oop to both players.

I do think OP's ranges are a bit too tight, though (but def not 50% and 25%).


Stoves are nice to kinda get an idea where we stand, but I'd not rely too heavily on them in this scenario. I don't think we can simply say anything with 30% equity 3way, or with 23.5% equity when MP caps is worth a call, particularly when we're holding smallish pp's. Don't overlook that stove is all-in equity; but we won't be seeing the full board every time (or even a majority of the time) with small pp's. In fact, probably we only get to see 60% of the board the majority of the time.

Hand like 66 is often going to have to be played mostly just for set value, and I don't think we're getting a nice enough price.

We'll occasionally get non-set boards that are nonetheless favorable: 2-4-5 tt, 8-7-4 rb, etc. But even with these boards, we might want to factor in---as I think it was arseface who suggested---the cost of seeing the turn card (and river card) on those instances when making our pf decision.
With a smallish pp that is in no way anywhere near committed to SD 3way, I'd only use stove as a loose guideline to help you consider their specific ranges, and to get a rough idea of how far behind you are.

Anyway.....
I'd fold 66 in this spot. 77 is where I start considering; I maybe flip a coin: fold sometimes, cc sometimes. 88 I think I'm more flipping a coin to decide if I'm capping or cc'ing (might lean toward cc if I don't think capping ever gets me HU; but I don't think I'm ever folding 88). 99+ I think I'm capping pretty much 100%.

I'd cc a few other speculative hands; suited and connected type stuff, particularly those with some tp potential (and hopefully not too much domination/RIO concern): KQs, AJs, maybe QJs and JTs.
I cap AQ+ (suited or off). I probably find fold with ATs (too much domination concern, imo), and AJo.

If your MP has a 4 betting range, then you can chop that out of your calling case and then look at how often he 4 bets. You can use the conditional probabilities with your equity. Basically, you've got a hand with a bad LAG 3 betting a LAGTAG in a mid-stakes game. Your absolute and relative position post flop is poor. If you wanted to set mine, you could look at your 2-ish bet investment and figure how likely you are to get about 10:1 on it post flop. You haven't really talked about post flop tendencies and spew for our villains.

Honestly, if you just didn't have a cold calling range here you'd be fine. As others have pointed out, there are few boards you love. If your villains hand read, you're going to be super easy to put on a range as you'll have like 77-55, 89s, JTs, and some A-decent suited combos. Maybe you'd be a little wider, but you're playing face up on a lot of boards. If the pot wasn't going to be active post flop, you might play a little wider and see if you can show down post flop for one bet.

I like your fold.

This is exactly how I currently play. When running some cals however, QJs and JTs hold as much equity as 66, that's why I also started wondering what I should do. While you almost can only play 66 for set-mining, QJs and JTs have the problem of being dominated hands often in this situation. Sure a flop like AKQ probably gets you loads of money against the other players ranges, but we can also be behind both players even when we flop top-pair. So when I would cold-call QJs/JTs why wouldn't I also Cold-Call 66-88?

Currently I probably cold-call AJs/KQs/QJs/JTs/AQo/KQo and cap 99+,AQs+,AKo. Sure I might sometimes cap KQs,AQo,88 as well.


Thanks for all the other input as well. About my ranges being to tight, maybe they are indeed but I think that for the discussion I'm looking for it isn't really relevant. Sure it matters in the end when deciding what your Cold-Call range is in a specific situation but I'm not looking at a specific answer here. I want to learn how I could find the answer myself. Now I do of course know nothing in poker is black/white, but from what I've read from your responses I did already learn a lot on how to look at these given situations and come up with a "mathematic" answer. It's this discussion which I was hoping to get, as thinking about these things by yourself are not really easy.

And indeed sorry Duff, I screwed up my opening post. It's MP who raises and CO who 3-bets.

If you're cold calling all those other hands, I think you can cold call 22-88.