The Official 2011 High Volume Limit Players SN/SNE Thread

[bellatrix]

Originally Posted by CoreySteel

I have made some calculations.
In November and December I played ~67000 hands at 1/2, 2/4 and 3/6 SH.
With dealt method I "made" 6256$ rake, with WC I would only make 5564$!
Playing 31/24 style.

That is pretty sick drop.

Could you post a graph/table of the actual rake you paid and the calculated method it says you're paying? I did not understand a word of "you made $ rake". Partly because paying less rake sounds better than paying more ;-). Are you actually paying 6256$ in rake yet only getting credited 5564$? Aren't the numbers actually somewhere in the middle? And partly because those are the numbers we are floating around -> you are getting 11% less VPPs, which is what is what has been said all along. If you made 1000$/month in RB, you'll make 10% less next month.

Rooks -> good point. But then again, I don't look at the numbers that way. I know it shouldn't be that way, but usually the whole RB thingie is a bonus to me. I don't put it into RoR calculations, for example. If at the end of the year I made a k or 2 from Stellar Rewards and VIP bonuses it's exactly that - a nice Christmas bonus and I didn't calculate it. I guess people that have the whole Fpppro thing worked out think otherwise, so def ymmv.

[DougL]

Originally Posted by datsmahname

The 2012 thread should start out with some luls

It will just be the Monk fan club... GOGOGO, get that 50K VPP!!

[CoreySteel]

Originally Posted by bellatrix

Could you post a graph/table of the actual rake you paid and the calculated method it says you're paying? I did not understand a word of "you made $ rake". Partly because paying less rake sounds better than paying more ;-). Are you actually paying 6256$ in rake yet only getting credited 5564$? Aren't the numbers actually somewhere in the middle? And partly because those are the numbers we are floating around -> you are getting 11% less VPPs, which is what is what has been said all along. If you made 1000$/month in RB, you'll make 10% less next month.

Rooks -> good point. But then again, I don't look at the numbers that way. I know it shouldn't be that way, but usually the whole RB thingie is a bonus to me. I don't put it into RoR calculations, for example. If at the end of the year I made a k or 2 from Stellar Rewards and VIP bonuses it's exactly that - a nice Christmas bonus and I didn't calculate it. I guess people that have the whole Fpppro thing worked out think otherwise, so def ymmv.

That's why I put "made" in brackets

I actually paid x$ rake (WTA), last year I got credited for 6256$ (dealt) and in 2012 I will get credited for 5564$ (WC).
My actual paid rake would be something in between dealt and WC. For exact number I would need to make a custom stat, but I'm bit drunk atm, so have to postpone it till tomorrow

RB isn't bonus for me but main profit. I'm not good enough of a player to beat regs/rake/etc.

[Sect7G]

jspill posted that I would stand to lose under the WC method. I still can hardly get my head around that as I feel I'm much looser than most. But his maths I'm sure are correct and this demonstrates that this switch is going to kill LHE FR especially and even 6 max on Stars.

I'd say I'm at least 50-70% looser than some 'nits', so these guys are going to lose a pile load of money. Many being slightly losing players pre rb are now going to hardly make a profit after rb and may say it's not worth their time and quit. I wouldn't blame them. This player type comprises the vast majority of regs on the site and without them games will not run. No SNE's and only a handful of tables would be available.

Does anyone remember when Furbean/Fua99 got banned? The games overnight took a massive hit in tables running. Now imagine 40 regs quit?

I propose WC can stay as that won't go since they implimented it but raise the VPP multiplier to 6.5x for FR and 6x for 6 max. The reason for the discrepancy is the bb/100 winrates of the better players. It's higher on 6 max due to recreationals being forced into more hands= more mistakes and lose quicker.

Even with the higher multiplier Stars would make money because these 'nits' only get rb if they actually play hands. Therefore Stars would make money off of them even if the vpp multiplier was 7.5vpp per hand. From Stars point of view less profit is better than no profit at all.

Also I'd like to see some rake caps being lowered. My suggestions were posted in the Sit-Out Plan for the actual day thread which only MSauce can post in. These rake lowerings would only occur at the current Cap and would only shave 25-50 cents off the current Caps for games at the 2-4 to 5-10 buy ins for both FR and 6 max. Obviously the lower stakes would have to be adressed as well.

I only play Limit because I enjoy the game. I have found that profit wise I do much better playing MTT's but LHE was my first passion and I will always hold it close to my heart. To see how these changes may cause the game to seize to be run makes me very sad.

Point is whether you're in favour of WC or Not we are all in favour of games running... and the majority may leave which will cause all of us to suffer.

Happy New Year and lets all hope our game can survive.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

hey just got back from xmas vacation.

just wanted to respond to this:

I propose WC can stay as that won't go since they implimented it but raise the VPP multiplier to 6.5x for FR and 6x for 6 max

there was never any reason why they should have been different. it should simply be 6.5x multiplier at this point.

[CoreySteel]

Originally Posted by Sect7G

jspill posted that I would stand to lose under the WC method. I still can hardly get my head around that as I feel I'm much looser than most. But his maths I'm sure are correct and this demonstrates that this switch is going to kill LHE FR especially and even 6 max on Stars.

jspill is right, you will lose some. But it actually depends on if you do a table selection or do you play with regs only. But either way, you will lose. Probably not as much as me.
I have 31/24/12 stats and I'll be 11% down.

[CoreySteel]

652 hands played (1/2, 2/4 and 3/6 SH).

33/26, 13bet
Old VPP: 410,32 VPP
New VPP: 336,41 VPP

omg...
please, let this just be a too small of a sample size...

[Sect7G]

I do agree with you Eski, about the vpp multiplier... I was just giving a discrepancy since that's likely how Stars see's it since they started with the 6x and 5.5x.

Also on a side not they should switch 3-6 to blinds of 1.50-3.00 as this would naturally increase action.

[DougL]

I'm going to put a close on the 2011 thread. I'll let an actual High Volume grinder have the honor of starting the 2012 thread. Great job for Monk in hitting SNE in 2011. I assume that CoreySteel and Sect7G did the same.

Congrats to all the grinders of 2011 and good luck in 2012.