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Old 08-17-2012, 09:48 AM   #1
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Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

2 hands here, both of which I win but could I get more value or is it fine as played?
I'm playing 6 max fixed limit at 25c/50c

Hand 1:

HJ calls
Cutoff (hero) raises
Big Blind calls
HJ calls
Checked to hero I bet (flop 4s, 8h, Th)
Called in both spots
Turn Qc
Hj bets
Hero calls
river (2s) Hj bets and Hero calls

Showdown: Hero Td, Tc
Villain Qh, Kd

Hand 2:

Cutoff raises
Hero check calls in the big blind
Hero check calls flop (Th, 6c, 8s)
Turn Jd
I check raise and pot is capped
River Ac, Hero bets, villain raises, Hero calls

Showdown: Hero 9s, Qc
Villain Ah,Jh


In the first example I'm scared of 9J and in the second example it looks like
I could be up against QK, if it was QK he played the turn like a pro.

Could I be getting more value or am I right to be cautious when my opponent
has the nuts a decent proportion of the time?
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:16 PM   #2
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

First, stop putting your opponent on only 1 hand when he makes a play postflop. Your opponent is always going to have a range of hands and you have to consider how well your hand does against his/her entire range. Your hand in hand 1 is actually much stronger than your hand in hand 2 and yet you put in more action in hand 2 because you were only considering 1 possible hand in villain's range.

Hand 1, easy raise on the turn, I would probably cap a 3-bet and either just call a lead on a blank river or Bet/Call if villain C/R's.

Hand 2, I just call down from the 3-bet.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:45 PM   #3
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

raise the turn in hand 1 and c/r the flop in hand 2.

villan never have the nuts in hand 2, and in hand 1 a resonable villan will raise J9 on the flop.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #4
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

*g*

Hand 1: I may have raised the Turn and raised the River on a blank 2s.

Hand 2: NH. It's possible the Rvr could be Capped! because they went buck wild on the J turn, it feels like a paired J or made 2P (J10 or something).
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:00 PM   #5
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide View Post
Hand 2, I just call down from the 3-bet.
Edit: Misread your post, I thought you had AJ in hand 2. With Q9, I would go ahead and 3-bet the river and call a cap.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #6
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smikesies View Post
2 hands here, both of which I win but could I get more value or is it fine as played?
I'm playing 6 max fixed limit at 25c/50c

Hand 1:

HJ calls
Cutoff (hero) raises
Big Blind calls
HJ calls
Checked to hero I bet (flop 4s, 8h, Th)
Called in both spots
Turn Qc
Hj bets
Hero calls
river (2s) Hj bets and Hero calls

Showdown: Hero Td, Tc
Villain Qh, Kd

Hand 2:

Cutoff raises
Hero check calls in the big blind
Hero check calls flop (Th, 6c, 8s)
Turn Jd
I check raise and pot is capped
River Ac, Hero bets, villain raises, Hero calls

Showdown: Hero 9s, Qc
Villain Ah,Jh


In the first example I'm scared of 9J and in the second example it looks like
I could be up against QK, if it was QK he played the turn like a pro.

Could I be getting more value or am I right to be cautious when my opponent
has the nuts a decent proportion of the time?
*g*

Hand 1 Raise the turn and the river worrying about the J9 is just MUBSY I guess if he caps the turn I might just call river

Hand 2 Again just worried about one hand that beats you, need to start thinking in terms of ranges and how your hand does against those ranges. That said he did play the turn like KQ at game speed I might just call the river though I think the correct play might be r/c
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:38 PM   #7
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Re: Many a mickle makes a muckle (value raise or cautious call)

*G*

Welcome to micros forum.

Few points on hand posting etiquettee:
1) results are unimportant, you don't need to show them or even imply as to what the result was. They will bias the opinions of your responders, just as they likely bias your own thinking right after you played it.
2) Properly converted and formatted hands are much nicer to read (and will thus likely get you more responders).
3) Including any stats, reads, or other information about the villains, table dynamics, recent action, etc will help in getting more informed responses. If you're not paying attention to all of these details, well......you should be.

As to the hands (void any information about the villains).....

#1: Raise the turn, call down if 3bet. A sudden turn donk could me so many things (he peeled flop with overs and spiked a pair on turn---what actually happened; he turned 2pair, he's screw-playing a draw, he picked up a draw or additional draw, etc). You apparently put him almost squarely on J9 and very little else to put the brakes on.

#2: His turn play would be a bit spaztastic for KQ, so I'd have trouble putting him on that. And since that is the only thing you lose to (and there are reduced possibilities of it, too, given you hold one queen), I'd go ahead and 3bet/call that river. If it turns out he did have KQ, well, that's poker. You take a note that he's a bit of a spaz who can WAY hyper-play a draw on the turn HU, and move on.

Edit: Also, +1 million to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide View Post
First, stop putting your opponent on only 1 hand when he makes a play postflop. Your opponent is always going to have a range of hands and you have to consider how well your hand does against his/her entire range. .
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:17 PM   #8
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In both hands I'm reraising as much as villain wants.
They turn up with worse so often at this level you have to push your strong hands.
If you're so cautious with sets & straights it makes me wonder what you're doing with top pair type hands and whether you're folding too much.
You have to push your edges at LHE. The advice about hand ranges is excellent btw
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