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Old 07-18-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
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KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.20 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG+2 with J K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (6.5 SB) 2 K 7 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero ???

Virtually no hand history on the villain.
I struggle to know what to do when someone donks into me. I rarely see it and I don't know whether to see it as strength or weakness.
How do you deal with donk bets in general, and how would you play this particular hand?

Thanks
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:51 PM   #2
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

I'd call down. You can't fold TPGK versus some random at these stakes and raising could well be spew. It's hard to generalise about what to do versus a donk - very read dependent.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:24 PM   #3
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

Hard to say what a donk means from a brand new villain. But I'm def calling down. I think you'll see K8-KT/KJ (and maybe the rare poo-flinging blufftard action) enough to call down profitably. Also get some info on his donk range (very useful info).
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:45 PM   #4
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaminator22 View Post
I struggle to know what to do when someone donks into me. I rarely see it and I don't know whether to see it as strength or weakness.
search this guy to find out how many tables he plays or just inspect the lobby.
If he plays >6 tables... these guys play straightforward i.d. automatic.
One table... he definitely hit...after 3bet definitely hard.
looks like a set... calling down is not bad because 99% call down in such situation...so it's EV=0
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:09 PM   #5
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

I think calling down here is pretty good, because we don't know what he is like.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:10 PM   #6
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

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Originally Posted by perplexed76 View Post
search this guy to find out how many tables he plays or just inspect the lobby.
If he plays >6 tables... these guys play straightforward i.d. automatic.
One table... he definitely hit...after 3bet definitely hard.
looks like a set... calling down is not bad because 99% call down in such situation...so it's EV=0
WHAT?? He could easily be spazzy and doing this with like nothing or something like TT. I just think this is a bad assumption to make. I just don't know where you get this.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:48 PM   #7
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

In my (admittedly somewhat out of date) experience, donkbets tend to signal weak made hands, draws, and air. (But there is variety within that range from player to player, and then some players donkbet with a variety of hand types, ranging from weak draws to top-pair hands.) In any case, in my experience flop donkbets rarely come from anything stronger than top pair. Fish love to checkraise and/or slowplay their big hands.

But the 3-bet changes matters, I think. When I was playing pre-Black Friday, as a default I didn't give donkbets a whole lot of credit, but the donkbet/3-bet line did nevertheless scare me. (The donkbet was common, whereas the 3-bet follow-up was rare, and when it came, it worried me.)

In the posted hand, I would call down.

Disclaimer: I mostly played at 2/4. It's possible that the range for donkbets is, on the whole, a bit stronger at £0.10/0.20.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:10 AM   #8
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

This seems like the most obvious call down in the world. Any other option seems terrible. I'd need to know that over a 200+ hand sample villain has a VPIP under 15 before I consider folding anywhere. Villain easily has a worse K 20% of the time.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
This seems like the most obvious call down in the world. Any other option seems terrible. I'd need to know that over a 200+ hand sample villain has a VPIP under 15 before I consider folding anywhere. Villain easily has a worse K 20% of the time.
Agree.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:53 AM   #10
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick C View Post
In my (admittedly somewhat out of date) experience, donkbets tend to signal weak made hands, draws, and air. (But there is variety within that range from player to player, and then some players donkbet with a variety of hand types, ranging from weak draws to top-pair hands.) In any case, in my experience flop donkbets rarely come from anything stronger than top pair. Fish love to checkraise and/or slowplay their big hands.
What I've been seeing in a few days of playing microstakes on Merge is that donkbets can represent anything up through hands strong enough to LOLslowplay. (E.g. just last night I opened in MP with 88, BTN and BB called, flop came A 9 Xr, and BB donked. I figured the board was dry enough that my pair was no good and folded, but the BTN called down every street. BB proudly showed A9o, and boasted "It's the only way to play two pair!")

We really need to look attentively at hands where a villain donks the flop. If it gets to showdown, make a note. It's very villain-dependent. What's the weakest hand they donk? What's the strongest? Do they donk draws or just value hands? Do they donk-bluff? Find out!
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
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Re: KJ Flops top pair. Villain donk bets. LHE £0.10/£0.20

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
We really need to look attentively at hands where a villain donks the flop. If it gets to showdown, make a note. It's very villain-dependent. What's the weakest hand they donk? What's the strongest? Do they donk draws or just value hands? Do they donk-bluff? Find out!
Plus a mirrion.
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