this.

i would love to be told a scenario in which we are either ahead at the moment hero folds, or behind but have odds to peel versus three people who've already put two big bets in

until then we have one pair on a board that one pair is generally worthless on

also, calling here pretty much compels us to call a blank river, yes? i mean, we'd be getting 20-1 zomg! so our odds at the moment of folding are closer to 8-1 than 16-1, keep that in mind

JT has an OESD on the flop. QT has a double gutter. Both hit on the turn. Any gutshot called getting 14-17:1 (although with a risk of a raise from behind) so I wouldn't discount gutshots at all.

I go with the check-and-see. I don't hate betting out but I'm not calling a raise. We are usually drawing to a split with four other players.. That board is right in the middle of limper-country..

I know you didn't. Just seems most of the time when I post here I get someone jumping down my throat.

I've read the FAQ and I won't post results any more if I have another hand to post. I will wait until prompted.

Ok, back to the hand:

What is my 'horribly flawed fundamental mindset'? That I folded AA in a big pot with slim chances or winning? I kind of feel like many that have posted in that I looked at it as how many times could I play this hand to showdown and win. I didn't think that chance was very high. I haven't looked at the math of the hand either, so perhaps it says even given the situation going to showdown is the best play in the long run.

And thanks for deleting the post with the results. I was going to do that if I could, so everything would be good again.

^ I'm pretty sure Zeldark is referring in post #32 to you asking for advice based on the actual hand Villain had. It doesn't matter and if you try to improve your game thinking whether the decisions you made were good or bad in relation to the actual hand of the Villain you are doing it wrong. You ~never know what Villains have in the table and shouldn't evaluate your play like you happened to know.

The correct approach is to come up with a hand range for Villain and make the play that fares best vs that range. It can be the wrong decision vs the actual hand but the best one vs the assumed range.

I'm going to somewhat reverse field, I guess; this hand has been bugging me. Get ready, here it comes.

I agree that putting in multiple bets with Hero in the lead on this board is spewish, ruling out b/c. I'll get on board with that. I also agree that putting in any bets with somebody else in the lead is spewish, ruling out c/c. That leaves us with b/f and c/f.

That said, I still think that not betting this turn is weak (and all the people saying we should check are being influenced by the fact that UTG1 raised when Hero did bet), and leaves you in a situation where you feel you need to "call one back to you closing the action" which leaves you in violation of the second paragraph. It also leaves you having to check/call one on a blank river.

So, yeah, we can b/f both the turn and river. Bad situation, rare interesting AA hand post.

op you got great feedback from some VERY good poker players without paying a cent for it, please to be thanking the forum rather than complaining about it.

Mitke pretty much got it.

You can only calculate the information you had at the time of play.
Since you will never be able to go back and replay it, it is results oriented and harmful to your learning.

I will say however, that the fact that you did the right thing, and still questioned it is a sign of NOT being results oriented, while your questioning going back in time and playing it differently is.

What you DO have is a read now. You know the villain won't raise TT, have a better idea of what and how he plays, and that will be of great benefit in the future.

If you can understand the difference between using the results for the future and wishing you had played the hand differently, you can increase your potential several fold. You still won't know but you'll have more information to work with.

Rinse and repeat.

I have thanked the forum and posters for their responses. If that post has been overlooked then:

I really do appreciate all the comments, advice, and arguing of this hand. I figured it would be interesting and have learned a great deal from reading through all the posts.

That's why I come here. I know there are some very good players here and I want their feedback. However, there have been some other times when I've come here and people just went off at me for a little oversight. Perhaps I post here feeling defensive because of it. I have read the FAQ and now no not to post what the villain had unless asked for specifically.

I don't know what more I can say.

I would also like to add:

My only reason for posting the results is I thought it would be helpful in some way to know how the hand played out. I was wrong.

some people are nicer than others imo?